Talk:C Real (Greek band)

Capitalization

From the album cover and references it looks like the group's name is C:REAL, not C:Real. Can anyone confirm? 24.126.197.197 (talk) 19:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

On their newest album cover Invain its "C:real" and on [1] its "C:Real". It changes with the look of the album cover, but on biographies, etc., its C:Real. Grk1011 (talk) 19:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

rename

Hi, at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#commons interwiki we are looking for ways to remove pages which begin with "c:", so that it can become an alias for Wikimedia Commons. Any suggestions on what to rename this page? John Vandenberg ^(chat) 21:27, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I suppose it could be renamed "C-Real" though it would have to be disambiguated with some other pages at that name. Also, the official website was c-real.gr when it was up and running so it's not much of a stretch. However the name of the band is and only is C:Real as seen on the cover. Grk1011 (talk) 14:58, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

If a move is needed to implement the Commons alias, "C-Real (Greek band)" would work. To avoid additional disambiguation from the Korean C-Real (band), we could also move this article to C-Real and the Korean band to C-REAL.  Sandstein  12:41, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, C:Real is the official name of the band as seen here and here. Atlantia (talk) 19:19, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but unfortunately, if we use the current name and implement the new interwiki, the page will be inaccessible.  Hazard-SJ  ㋡  20:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunaly we can't use several special names e.g. C# has to be C Sharp (programming language) (no prob, is just M$ crap anyways ;-) a×p_de^Hello! 22:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

This is the name of the band. To be forced to use something else just because the project wants to make a shortcut link is a little silly imo. Grk1011 (talk) 16:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

There are technical reasons for some unusable characters as '#' or '?' or ':' so we have to get along with it! a×p_de^Hello! 15:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Their website domain is called "c-real", their myspace page is "crealspace" and their official fan club page is "c_real". Now our website page is "C_Real". John Vandenberg ^(chat) 03:52, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi user:Ypnypn, you moved this back stating "there is no intention of making c: a shortcut to commons", however there is bugzilla:4676 and meta:Requests_for_comment/Wikimedia_Commons. Was there some newer discussion about this? AFAIK, we are awaiting action from Hindi Wikipedia before this can be done. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 11:07, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I hadn't seen that RfC or Bugzilla, but this exchange led me to believe that it may never happen. I guess I was wrong. -- Ypnypn (talk) 14:01, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the link to that discussion on Meta. I didnt see that discussion. When I moved this article I did expect the Hindi change to happen more quickly. I guess I'll need to poke someone over on Hindi Wikipedia. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 00:05, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello all. As a heads-up, this month the RfC at Meta was rebooted, and at the time of writing it's pretty much looking like a dead cert that this article will need to be moved back to C Real. — Scott • talk 22:07, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Rename to "C：Real" (using a fullwidth colon)

The suggestion's come up at the RFC of using the fullwidth colon (：). If this article were renamed to C：Real, it would still appear to anyone searching for C:Real - see this test search for "M:RFC". So that seems like a good solution. Thanks to Verdy p for the idea and PiRSquared17 for the search test. — Scott • talk 17:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing my idea. The fullwidth colon is supported on almost all existing systems, as they are ready for use in China (also in Korea and Japan), and all of them are also manufactured today and sold in China. Most systems today have at least a basic support of CJK scripts with at least one suitable font (even if it's not the full sinographic system, it is at least a significant part of it for use with Kanjis and Kanas in Japanese or with Hangul and Hanjas in Korean).

The fullwidth colon is encoded in Unicode since very long, and supported on OSes wince long (even on the oldest version of Windows 95 or even before with Windows 3.11; MS/DOS and even older version of IBM PC/DOS; even if at that time Internet was not available on these systems) The character sets used in East Asia have encoded the fullwidth colon since long because it is part of their typographic tradition. It has even been considered equivalent to the ASCII colon on computer at a time where Unicode still dod not exist and fonts used on computers were only monospaced.

Even today, many monospaced fonts (for terminal input) will not exhibit the difference between the fullwidth colon and the ASCII colon, the difference being possibly (but not mandatorily) made only with the rendering of the ASCII colon by non-CJK "proportional" fonts (such as those in the "serif" and "sans-serif" family for Latin/Greek/Cyrillic).

Finally the Unicode standard already makes the CJK fullwidth colon as a compatibility equivalent to the ASCII colon (this also means that they are not differentiated in normal searches, and that these colons are sorted together in collation). As a consequence, plain-text search engine will find pagenames or text containing any form (ASCII or CJK fullwidth) of this punctuation.

Given the name of the current music band, we've already seen variation on how their own characters are rendered (different relative glyph sizes, different character spacing, but more importantly different capitalization styles), the minor difference pf rendering of the colon (if using a fullwidth version) can be safely ignored (this difference of spacing is much less notable that the existing variation on the music band's name due to the variable capitalization they use themselves !).

So in summary it is perfectly safe to rename this page from "C:Real" to "C：Real" (also adjust the other aliases "C:REAL" and "C:real" to redirect to "C：Real", instead of to "C:Real").

Many readers won't even notice the difference (well the result may still depend on which CJK font is installed on the system but renderers will still display a colon even if no CJK font is installed; the difference is almost not noticeable with monospaced font-family styles, a but more visible with "sans-serif" and "serif" font-family styles) ! In fact they will even better notice that the colon is part of the real name of the music band. And everyone will read this wide colon as... a colon. verdy_p (talk) 21:29, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Note: there are three candidate CJK fullwidth characters: U+FF1A IDEOGRAPHIC FULL-WIDTH COLON (：), U+FE55 IDEOGRAPHIC SMALL COLON (﹕) and U+FE30 (︰) but only the last one warranties the vertical presentation, centered horizontally and vertically in its square box (the two first one may appear rotated, or too small (near the base line), or decentered within a half-box (as if it was a narrow colon occupying the first half of the ideographic square, followed by a space occupying the second half part of this square). It is not clear which one is better (IMHO they are equlally representative in this name, but the third one U+FE30 (︰) is more consistant when used between two Latin capital letters without introduing an unbalanced larger space to its right, and without reducing its height with some fonts). verdy_p (talk) 22:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

It's safe but too early! Please don't jump the gun. Until consensus has been formalized for the reuse of C: this article should be staying at its original name. So I'm moving it back, sorry. — Scott • talk 22:16, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm, it has been discussed since long without anyone proposing something. This really minor article is outlawed by the strong consensus for C: to be used as an very iùportant (and unambiguous) interwiki code to be used on all Wikimedia wikis (all of them using Commons and needing safe ways to point to it, including on Commons itself, where the prefix "commons:" is a namespace for the project, and not the root of the wiki; this is part o the discussions to allow better integration of contents across wikis to eliminat the inconsistencies and specific code depending on the source wiki where common templates will be shared and reused, or contents will be moved from one wiki to another). verdy_p (talk) 22:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

This article can even be renamed without waiting this decision (though this minor article, rated since long here as "low importance", about a band name whose orthography is already variable, should not block millions of other articles, talk pages or portals in many languages referencing Commons, and possibly even more in the future if we increase the interwiki integrations with new tools used to facilitate the exchange of links or facilitate the navigation across languages and projects)!.

Look at the band's own page on Myspace. It is clear that they vary the capitalization, as well as the spacing and position around the colon (e.g. on https://myspace.com/crealspace/mixes/classic-discography-380562 where you see on a single graphically composed page several variants of their own name!) and that in fact it is not even a colon but some decorative glyph, not given a strong importance but used as a separator. May be it could even mean that they give importance to the C, as if it was a long one (in the IPA, long sounds are represented by the "triangular" colon, but the IPA symbol in fact is most frequently using rounded dots). So another colon, the IPA symbol at U+02D0 (ː) (encoded in an extended Latin block as a "modifier letter", mostly for usage in IPA) could be used as well for the same purpose... and it would also match the usage on the band's music covers and promotional documents. verdy_p (talk) 22:46, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Request for Comments: c: link prefix for Wikimedia Commons

There is a cross-wiki discussion in progress as to whether c: should be enabled globally as an interwiki prefix for links to the Wikimedia Commons. If the proposal gains consensus this will require the deletion or renaming of several pages on the English WIkipedia whose titles begin with "C:", including this page. Please take a moment to participate in the discussion.
There is also a related discussion on the English Wikipedia at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 February 16#C:ATT to which you are invited to contribute.
Thank you. Thryduulf (talk) 15:32, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080226061748/http://www.c-real.gr/main.php?page=biography to http://www.c-real.gr/main.php?page=biography
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080715031628/http://www.music.net.cy/kallitexnes/creal/index.html to http://music.net.cy/kallitexnes/creal/index.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110929170456/http://www.mad.tv/news/?id=456 to http://www.mad.tv/news/?id=456
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721082934/http://www.planetworks.gr/releases/archive/singles/65.html to http://www.planetworks.gr/releases/archive/singles/65.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080421095557/http://www.heavenmusic.gr/articleDetail/0%2C3702%2C177852%2C00.html to http://www.heavenmusic.gr/articleDetail/0%2C3702%2C177852%2C00.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080627180525/http://www.music.net.cy/mousika_nea/june2008/2-6/creal.htm to http://music.net.cy/mousika_nea/june2008/2-6/creal.htm

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Requested move 13 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Adumbrativus (talk) 02:28, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

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C Real (Greek band) → C;Real – The technically-restricted colon can simply be substituted with a semicolon to produce a more-satisfactory title. JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 20:45, 12 January 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). – robertsky (talk) 02:18, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

• Is there precedent for this? I don't see anything at WP:NC-COLON -Bensci54 (talk) 21:38, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
  • This is definitely not uncontroversial. This acticle is literally one of the examples on WP:NC-COLON, plus there's been discussion on the talk page. I see no reason at all to use a semi-colon. -Kj cheetham (talk) 21:50, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose and speedy close. This is a bizarre suggestion with no apparent precedent. Grk1011 (talk) 15:52, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, stylism (and not even the right one.) 162 etc. (talk) 16:50, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, the band's name is not "C;Real", it's "C:Real". That Wikipedia technically restricts the use of the colon is no reason to misspell the band's name. JIP | Talk 16:59, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

  This makes no sense. Technically-restricted article titles such as C:Real will always be misspelled. JohnCWiesenthal (talk) 00:59, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. No basis in anything. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.