Talk:CSS Carondelet/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 19:07, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Dual wield Confederate ship reviews? Why not! I'll take a look at this shortly. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 19:07, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I wrote this in about an hour and a half around midnight last night, so expect lots of grammar errors ... Hog Farm _Talk 19:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I'll keep it in mind! The amount of late-night drafts I've written that make utterly no sense the following morning...! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 19:16, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Prelim

• No edit wars. I see a user redirected the Pamlico red link to a very basic Spanish article. Might be useful linking at Oregon too, and link in main text should be changed too if you keep it.
  • I've removed the interwiki link. Frankly, I just don't think an unsourced substub in another language is useful at all to a reader. Hog Farm _Talk 22:25, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
• No duplicated links
• No images to check. Suggest adding at least one, perhaps of another vessel she was involved with, e.g. File:Bard, Steamer J.P. Jackson, 1860.jpg
  • I've added a satellite image showing Lake Pontchartrain and New Orleans
• Earwig reports no copyvio

Lede and infobox

• NHHC describes her as a "light draft steamer"?
  • I've added this to the body. "Sidewheel steamer" is probably more meaningful to the reader in the lead than "light draft steamer", and both are true
• "Her sister ship was CSS Bienville." does this mean there should be a ship class article?
  • I haven't seen anything that would really support a class article without major WP:SYNTH and WP:OR issues. I would need to do more research before coming to this conclusion, but there's a chance Bienville may not even be notable -Silverstone says that she was never commissioned and she doesn't to have really done much.
• "likely fired the only two shots that struck John P. Jackson"?
  • Done
• "Carondelet was scuttled by her crew." note the possible locations here?
  • Added
• Capitalise the "s" of sidewheel in infobox
  • Done
• Displacement should be in infobox as it is in main text
  • Done
• Multiple sources seem to note the 32-pounder, is it really only possible?
  • Removed "possibly"

Service history

• "but a smaller fleet remained in the New Orleans area." is this the force that Carondelet was built to be part of, or an already extant fleet? Not totally sure how the sentence beginning "Many vessels..." relates to her construction.
  • Should be clearer now
• "on the Bayou St. John"?
  • The "the" isn't really common used when referring to Bayou St. John, I guess because it's being treated as a lake?
• Carondelet is an interesting name, any idea where it comes from?
  • Sources don't say. My guess would be Carondelet Street in New Orleans, although the Union vessel named Carondelet was named after Carondelet, St. Louis.
• "with construction starting in 1861." you've already introduced these events as happening in late 1861?
  • Removed phrase
• "on January 25, 1862"
  • Oopsy. Fixed
• "states that she was armed with five 42-pounders and a 32-pounder rifled cannon." > "state that she was also armed with a 32-pounder rifled cannon."
  • Done
• "Bienville was her sister ship." how relevant is this? If you can say that she was identical or something then the point should stay, but if Bienville is an un-notable as you think then this seems a little irrelevant
  • Removed from here, although I've briefly stated it when describing that the two ships were built together, as it seems somewhat relevant there.
• "After entering service" if this is the same time as her commissioning, suggest changing to "After her commissioning"
  • Done
• "USS New London and USS John P. Jackson" what types of ship?
  • Added
• "CSS Oregon and CSS Pamlico ibid
  • Added
• "USS Hatteras" ibid!
  • Added
• "the USS Hatteras" this is the only time you prefix a ship name with "the"
  • Fixed
• "the USS Hatteras arrived to reinforce the Union ships"?
  • Done
• "and the Union captured" not sure if there is a missing word after Union or not
  • It makes sense to me, but I grew up in a very rural area where we talked pretty funny, so I've added a word.
• NHHC notes that a camp was destroyed by the Union troops when they landed at Pass Christian?
  • Added
• Any dates for when Oregon's wreck interfered with the other ships, or when the other four were scuttled?
  • Added
• "ferrying Confederate troops out of the city" to where?
  • Covington, Louisiana. Added
• "Chatelain" you have not introduced Chatelain
  • Added
• The second paragraph is very chunky. Suggest splitting it up.
  • Done

References

• References look good

@Hog Farm: That's all I have for now. Will await your replies. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 23:58, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: - Thanks for the review! I've addressed all of the first pass on this one so far. (this one was surprisingly hard to search for, between the street and USS Carondelet having famous exploits at Island No. 10 in April 1862) Hog Farm _Talk 19:12, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Changes look good. A few final comments:

• "where Carondelet spent much of her existence"

• Done

• You introduce Chatelain after having already noted his name without context

• Fixed

• If the location of Carondelet's sinking is debated, how sure can one be that her wreck "later became covered with sand"? (general interest more than anything!)

• The Tchefuncte flows into Pontchartrain and the Bogue Falaya flows into the Tchefuncte, so my guess is that it's differences in defining the various locations of bodies of water.

• Reference #9 is repeated unnecessary in the final paragraph

• The page numbering was off; I've fixed it so it's not duplicate

• "supplemented by 30 Confederate States Army soldiers" Assume there's not a figure for her total crew as well, or what proportion the 30 soldiers made up?

• Haven't seen a full figure. Confederate ships frequently had ad-hoc crews. The CSS Arkansas once used random artillery volunteers for a journey, and another time fought a defensive action with a crew of about 30 when it had a theoretical complement of about 230.

• Suggest a word or two to describe what Camp Moore was

• Done. I've actually been to Camp Moore; I have in-laws in the general area.

• "Confederates positions at..." are the "positions" noted here actually Fort Jackson and Fort St. Philip, or locations near them? Saying "at" makes it none too obvious, suggest changing to "of" if the forts themselves are the positions noted. Also "Confederates"\

• Fixed the spelling error, and used "of" since the forts themselves are being referred to

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: - These should be addressed now; this one was much easier to research than Oregon. Hog Farm _Talk 21:45, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Passing this article as satisfying the GA criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 11:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)