Talk:C86/Archive 1

Archive 1

Seperate articles for the tape and the 'genre'?

This article is currently about two only partially related topics: The NME C86 tape, and the genre/movement that became known as C86. I feel that the NME's compilation deserves an article on it's own as it is possibly the best-known indie compilation ever released and has only minimal connection to the musical movement (which was essentially referring to the year 1986 more than to the cassette - bands trying to emulate the jangly, twee (if you like) sound that came to the fore in that year). The cassette itself, as the article mentions, is far more diverse than the musical movement, with only a handful of tracks that could be considered to have directly influenced the later bands that became labelled 'C86'. In much of the article it isn't clear whether the tape or the musical movement is being referred to. I'm happy to separate the article out if ther is a consensus to do so. --Michig 18:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I take the point but i think the article should carry on a) acknowledging that it evolved into a genre (whether liked or disliked) b) that somewhere in the article it should talk about where that music evolved from.

also there's not that much in the article currently that isn't about the tape...the first para, the critical reaction, (some of the) influences, track listing, the notes/sources and the today bit.

i think another thing is that the current articles for indie, indiepop and twee are also a bit unfocused (the UK vs US thing) so to add another one might be a bit confusing. also it shouldn't be a history of, lets say, Ron Johnson records, Half Man, Half Biscuit, or The Shop Assistants as that can be done (and is done) in other articles.

I do agree though some more back ground information about the tape would be good whether on a separate page or not

(how many did it sell, a list (somewhere ) of all NME tapes (there's a good entry for c81), quotes from bands who appeared on it (or who didn't). Jem

I think the main problem I have with it as it stands is that the tape didn't evolve into a genre. The jangly guitar sound that dominated the indie charts in 1986 evolved into a genre - a sound that is not really representative of the tape. None of the bands labelled as 'C86' were influenced by The Shrubs, bIG fLAME, Bogshed, Stump, Half Man Half Biscuit, Fuzzbox, A Witness, The Wolfhounds, The Mackenzies, Age of Chance or The Mighty Lemon Drops (or by many of the other bands on the tape), or if they were they didn't show it. 'C86' was just a lazy label used for the later bands. Is C86 as a genre really distinct from indie-pop and 'twee' (another vastly over-used term)?--Michig 14:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I do agree that pinning down c86 as a genre is a bit like nailing jelly to the wall but it certainly existed and exists. do a google search for "c86 bands". and that despite the range of bands/sounds represented on the tape then it was the narrow "fey, jangly guitar" type bands who more often that not are described as such..

Is it similar to twee ? well i think thats more of a non UK phrase. Indiepop maybe sums it up better. So yep i agree but i don't think its right to say that c86 wasn't a genre.. Well Primal Scream (at least when they sounded like that) certainly did....

c86 was and still is used to describe a sound..see the references at the bottom of the article both at the time and now. why would somebody release a album in 2006 called cd86 with sarah bands, subway bands, creation bands if there weren't trying to acknowledge that it was sub genre ?

even my wife annoyed i was doing this this morning said "why do you still listen to all that c86 stuff" and by that she didn't mean my age of chance singles.

but yep. genres. they are a bugger to pin down. I agree. Jem 15:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

===splitting the article on the page.

you know what. I think that works quite well. good stuff.

ICA 2006 Event

Actually the ICA "C86 - Still Doing It For Fun" event is going ahead now, though with a somewhat tenuous link to C86. On 27/10/06, the line up will be The Magic Numbers, Gokart Mozart, Vic Godard & the Subway Sect + DJs St Etienne and Jeff Barrett. On 28/10/06, the line up will be Roddy Frame (Aztec Camera), Phil Wilson (The June Brides), The Wolfhounds + DJs The Pastels. So one band off C86 will be playing then (not counting DJ sets). Probably not worth mentioning in the article.--Michig 20:26, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I put in a brief ref to it last week but also to the film; Hungry Beat. At the moment it feels right as a illustration of how the tape itself is still remembered . (for whatever reasons) and regardless of the actual line up of the event which you're right is a not strictly c86 related. Maybe in 2 months time it will just seem an ephemeral event and it should get removed.Jem 13:00, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, hadn't noticed that you'd added something in to the article about it. If it's in let's leave it in. Shame they could only get one of the 5 bands from the tape that are still going, though (in name, anyway).--Michig 13:08, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Review

Ok, here's some tips for improving the article:

• The lead needs expanding per WP:LEAD; it doesn't sum up the article.
• The image of the cassette needs a fair use rationale.
• The C86 genre should be split off to a different article.
• The Legacy and Track listing sections should have seperate headers, with Follow Ups being a subsection of Legacy.

Those are my thoughts anyway. CloudNine 13:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

To follow up CloudNine: the cassette is obviously important to the genre and vice versa. But right now the page works best as a representation of the genre, having the cassette as the foundation. Of the two, the cassette should become a new page. With that split off, much of the page can remain the same (taking into account some shifting around of material). It should be formatted as any compliation album page is; a few examples are No Alternative, No New York, and, of course, C81. WesleyDodds 13:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how this article goes on for as long as it does without one mention of The Smiths, clearly the precursor band that spawned this next (musical) generation of copycats. Jangle-pop is what The Smiths did best, and they did it better than anyone else ever would.alainsane 00:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

This article contains some problematic links and needs citation(s.) Under the section 'The C86 Cassette', the sentence that begins "NME journalists of the period subsequently agreed..." needs a citation. Also, Citation #12 is a dead/problematic link. simonlillard 10:14, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Value

is it worth mentioning that copies of the original C86 cassette now change hands on ebay for large sums - i just saw one sell for £61. Lincolnshire Poacher (talk) 11:18, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Talulah Gosh, etc.

I reverted an addition about Talulah Gosh for a couple of reasons. Firstly, despite the popular view of C86 as a jangly indie pop compilation, it wasn't, so we shouldn't have expected every jangly indie pop band to be on it. Secondly, the compilation was put together in the first half of 1986, and Talulah Gosh only formed in 1986 and had their first indie chart hit in December that year, so it's really not surprising at all they they didn't appear on C86. --Michig (talk) 17:11, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

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