Talk:Burials and memorials in Westminster Abbey

Some listings duplicated

Dropping a note off here to point out that some of the listings here duplicate what I'm working on at Poets’ Corner. Overall, this is an ambitious listing. See here, where it says: "Over 3,000 people are buried in the Church and Cloisters and there are over 600 monuments and memorials." Obviously not all those will have articles, but the 600 with monuments might! Good luck, and do borrow bits from the Poets’ Corner listing I've done if it helps, and please do let me know if you find any names I've missed out. Carcharoth (talk) 02:50, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I have added some material to Poets' Corner. There is now unfortunately a minor three-way overlap between that article, this article and the original Westminster Abbey article. If you look at the history of this article you will see that it was created primarily to make the original one more manageable and readable. I guess individuals may be added here on an "as noticed" and/or "how notable" basis. But if it does look like there'll be 600 entries, maybe the title will have to change to "Notable Westminster Abbey Burials and Memorials"? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:38, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I think if you get hold of a copy of Treasures of Westminster Abbey (Tony Trowles, 2008) you should be able to sort this article out. If you plan to get hold of a copy, let me know, otherwise I'll take a look with the copy I've got. That book essentially lists every grave, floor stone and monument (including memorial windows) in Westminster Abbey. So it would be a matter of cross-referencing between that and Wikipedia to see if we have article on all of them. I would suggest taking it area by area, or topic by topic, rather than trying to do the whole lot at once. There are many ways to slice this up: lists of kings and queens buried here (probably already done), list of Prime Ministers commemorated here, list of titled people, or lists by area (as done already here). As for the Poets' Corner one, I would suggest putting the non-poets and non-writers here, though the actors and dancers may be suitable for the Poets' Corner list as well. I'll pop back there and get the list finished first, and then see how many extra names are in the Trowles book (these will be mostly the canons and deans and monks and random lords and earls who didn't do anything literary or cultural to warrant being on that list, but are still buried or commemorated there). Carcharoth (talk) 22:09, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

An excellent plan. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Current archeological investigations at Westminster Abbey

It may be of interest to know that current archeological investigations employing x-ray techniques have revealed hundreds of 'unknown' burials within the Abbey, especially below the North and South transepts. There being no inscriptions on the stone floor, (perhaps being worn away over time), and also no evident records for these burials, the Abbey authorities were simply unaware that these burials existed. One wonders how many burials actually exist in the Abbey - perhaps we may never know? Ds1994 (talk) 20:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I think it's 100% certain we'll never know. But that's interesting information - I wonder do you have a reference? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:26, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

The details of the x-ray investigations were shown on UK's Channel 4 on Monday 28th June 2010 8.0-9.0pm entitled 'The Secrets of Westminster Abbey: A Time Team Special'. This programme is also referenced on the Westminster Abbey website with regard to the restoration of the Cosmati pavement. The x-rays shown on the programme were quite detailed, showing clearly the coffins laid just below the stone floor, it was also clear that there may be multiple burials i.e. one on top of the other, so the number of burials could run into the many hundreds. They had just started the x-ray procedure when the programme was recorded toward the end of 2009 - it would be interesting to get an update on this work. The Abbey authorities confirmed there were no historical details of these burials within the Abbey records at all. Presumably from this they must be very old, perhaps late medieval, or possibly even earlier? In this respect it would be interesting to learn how old the stone floor is in the Transepts and North and South Aisles - presumably laid when the Abbey was rebuilt by Henry III in the 13th Century? The programme also covered in close detail the restoration of the Cosmati Pavement - which in itself was extremely interesting. I would think this programme will be repeated again, either on Channel 4 or on 'More4'. Hope that helps.Ds1994 (talk) 16:11, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks. The programme is available here: [1] for the next 23 days. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:43, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Some details on the Cosmati Pavement could certainly be added (perhaps to the main WA article), e.g. that the inscription, now partly lost, predicted that the world would end after 19,683 years! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:24, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

In fact radar, not xray. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:49, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes indeed, 'x-ray' came from memory, radar makes sense as I'm not sure how x-ray would penetrate stone! Thanks.Ds1994 (talk) 18:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Franklin D. Roosevelt

There's a monument to him at the abbey, does it not count as a memorial?--Mongreilf (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't see why not. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect reference cited

Eliz I and Mary Tudor - Footnote 4. The reference should be: http://archive.org/stream/historicalmemori02staniala#page/384/mode/2up — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.108.78.10 (talk) 15:45, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

John André

John André is listed as being buried in both the nave and in Poets' Corner. Our article on him says he is buried in "Hero's Corner". DuncanHill (talk) 13:56, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, the article says he was: "... placed among kings and poets in Hero's Corner at Westminster Abbey under a marble monument depicting Britannia mourning alongside a British lion over André's death." (cit needed) So hardly a monument likely to be missed, I think! There's an image here, although no location is given. More information here, although still no location. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:12, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Findagrave has him in the nave. DuncanHill (talk) 14:18, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Sounds highly likely. Are we still allowed to use them? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:20, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't know - it's the sort of thing I would have no hesitation in using to plan a tour of famous or interesting graves, but whether it meets WP:RS I couldn't say. DuncanHill (talk) 14:26, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

I think we need this. So, yes the nave. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:32, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Oh well done, good find. DuncanHill (talk) 14:47, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

That is an interesting monument and story. Incidentally, regarding this bit: "The wooden chest in which the bones were enclosed is still in the Abbey's triforium (not accessible to the public)." The triforium (which has other monuments that were moved around over the years) were officially opened earlier this month: Her Majesty The Queen opens Jubilee Galleries (8 June 2018). "Set high above the Abbey floor in the medieval triforium - which has never before been open to the public - the Galleries display 300 objects from the Abbey collection, many of them for the first time." Not for this article, but the main Westminster Abbey article and template might need updating. And some more monuments and memorials might be worth mentioning in that context (though it appears that they will use the space to rotate objects in and out of the collection for public display). See my talk page comments here. Carcharoth (talk) 10:00, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

People who refused to be buried at Westminster Abbey

I was just wondering if it might be worthwhile to have a section on people who refused to be buried in the Abbey - Churchill and Lloyd George spring to mind. Thoughts? DuncanHill (talk) 15:03, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Thomas Hardy also had a few problems, although he never knew about them. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:16, 15 June 2018 (UTC)