Talk:Built-up area (Highway Code)

But surely there should and in fact must be a definition of "Built Up Area" in which the street lighting rule applies, and not the other way round. In fact, I'm sure there is, but I just can't find it again so I can't provide the evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 91.105.149.221 (talk • contribs).

Unsigned streetlighted roads

Some confusion as to what speed limit applies to a road that has street lighting but no signs (or worse the national speed limit sign that does not clearly define the road's speed limit as the built up area limit takes precedence?). For instance to a lead up to a roundabout on an A road with street lighting on all sides but outside an actual built up area, by the fact that the streetlighting is there and maybe less than 200 yards (180 metres) qualifies as a "built up area" - wouldn't this make the speed limit automatically 30mph if the road is not signed? Does this confusion make sense? pebbens (talk) 00:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hyphenation

The title should be "built-up area". "Built up" is used attributively here, and "built up area" suggests an "up area" (no such thing) that has been built.

We have a problem however — built-up area redirects to urban area. Can someone clean this up? — Paul G (talk) 10:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I have now disambiguated and fixed the title as it was bugging me; I was not sure originally how to disambiguate but I went by (Highway Code). Camaron | Chris (talk) 17:52, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

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British Built-up area (Highway Code) vs European Built-up area (Highway Code)

I was just wondering if there was a rational to make this article British specific, while the Built-up (Highway Code) is a more general (Highway Code) concept not limited to the United Kingdom. Quite the same concept exist both:

• at European level, for instance with the Vienna convention which allows national specific variant of the built-up concept, and it looks like the GB/UK Built-up (Highway Code) concept is the exact match of a national specific variant.
• at Irish level, where Ireland Republic is not member of the Vienna convention (at least for the southern part of that island).
• in South Africa, with a 60 km/h speed limit http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAGPPHC/2019/7.pdf

At first glance it could look like negation-ism/obscurantism to negate this reality, but might there be any rational which could make UK/GB Built-up (Highway Code) non integrable/mergeable in a wider Built-up (Highway Code)? Please let us known.

If agreed, the Built-up article (Highway Code) could start like:

The 1968 Vienna convention on traffic circulation defines a built-up area as an area with entry and exit specifically sign posted unless defined differently by the national law.[1]. For statical consistency, this is also called urban road (see urban road) by Eurostat, the European union, the OECD and the UNECE[2]. In the European union, this concept is used to count (monitor) traffic accidents inside and outside built-up area, and for speed limit regulations, usually 50 km/h or lower. In the UK Highway Code, a built-up area is a settled area in which the speed limit of a road is automatically 30 mph (48 km/h). These roads are known as 'restricted roads' and are identified by the presence of street lights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Built-up_area_(Highway_Code)&oldid=925261577

Built-up area (Highway code) is not British specific. This is also defined in the dictionary (glossary) of the Australian-Road-Rules:

built-up area, in relation to a length of road, means an area in which either of the following is present for a distance of at least 500 metres or, if the length of road is shorter than 500 metres, for the whole road:
a) buildings, not over 100 metres apart, on land next to the road;
b) street lights not over 100 metres apart.
Note: Length of road is defined in this dictionary. Source:https://www.pcc.gov.au/uniform/Australian-Road-Rules-3September2018.pdf

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.202.224 (talk) 00:06, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

The rationale for describing this particular article as being specifically about the UK concept is that: a) the opening sentence, b) there is already a "built-up area" article to cover the general concept, c) the "Highway Code" (note the caps indicating it is a proper noun) is specifically a British road user guide, first published in 1931 and d) the "built-up area" being described is the British concept which pre-dates the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic by more than 30 years, having been included in the Road Traffic Act 1934. -- DeFacto (talk). 09:26, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

a) the opening stance can be (and was) changed, and so this is not the issue here;

b) the "built-up area" article do not cover the general concept of built-up area for road purpose, but the general concept of built-up area outside of road purpose, so, this is not a working argument;

c&d) I did no see the caps indicating it is a proper noun. This might be the reason of the confusion. Might be we should create another article (to cover not only the highway code of the UK, but also its international variants)?

The page or the two pages might have an history section (each) to say that one pre-dates/influenced the other, and that might explain why the Vienna convention was so much focused on lighting...

The French word agglomération (French highway code) translation of built-up area (highway context) also predate the Vienna convention. Should we make a third page?

• In 1954, the word agglomération was yet defined in the 1954 French highway code https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6534072z/f43.image (page 1)
• In 1923, the word agglomération was yet used in the 1923 French highway code https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6150627j/f17.image (see for instance article 10, about intersections rules which can be changed within built-up area)
• In 1922, the word agglomération was yet used in the 1922 French highway code https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6218353m/f16.image (article 25, to limit the power of the sound of the Vehicle horn witihin built-up area)
• In 1907, the word agglomération was yet used in French jurisprudence to forbid the Mayor to limit the speed outside of a built-up area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.136.208.32 (talk) 12:55, 9 November 2019 (UTC)