Talk:Buell Motorcycle Company

More Info

This page could use some more info on the history of Buell, specifics on the various models, pictures, etc... it's basically a stub
Suggestion: to include a reference to the fact that British bike manufacturer MAC uses Buell engines in its designs. See http://www.mac-motorcycles.com/motor.html

External Links

I have removed external links to discussion forums as they are a violation of WP:EL. -- MakeChooChooGoNow 04:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

...and I'm going to go in and clean them out again. This article seems to be a popular magnet for forum-website-promoters, sadly. OldMan 03:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

taken directly from Wikipedia

Links normally to be avoided

Except for a link to a page that is the subject of the article or is an official page of the subject of the article, one should avoid:

1. Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain once it becomes a Featured article. (it does)

2. Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research. See Reliable sources. (it does not)

3. Links mainly intended to promote a website. (there is no money being made off of this site, there are NO ADVERTS and registration is free)

4. Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services. For example, instead of linking to a commercial bookstore site, use the "ISBN" linking format, giving readers an opportunity to search a wide variety of free and non-free book sources. (it does not)

5. Links to sites with objectionable amounts of advertising. (there are none)

6. Links to sites that require payment to view the relevant content. (it is free)

7. Sites that are inaccessible to a substantial number of users, such as sites that only work with a specific browser. (cross browser compatible)

8. Direct links to documents that require external applications (such as Flash or Java) to view the relevant content, unless the article is about such rich media. If you do link to such material make a note of what application is required. (straight HTML)

9. Links to search engine results pages. (not here)

10. Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), discussion forums or USENET. (not here either)

11. Links to blogs, except those written by a recognized authority. (no blogs)

12. Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. (it does not)

13. Sites that are only indirectly related to the article's subject: it should be a simple exercise to show how the link is directly and symmetrically related to the articles subject. This means that there is both a relation from the website to the subject of the article, and a relation from the subject of the article to the website. For example, the officially sanctioned online site of a rock band has a direct and symmetric relationship to that rock band, and thus should be linked to from the rock band's Wikipedia article. An alternative site run by fans is not symmetrically related to the rock band, as the rock band has only indirect connections with that site. (there are many Buell employees, marketing gurus and engineers that visit this site often. they bring much recognition to the site. it has been authorized by HD corporate as a safe and freindly site.)

With no answer I would assume it is safe to add a few of the more popular forums??

Marty

I would vote "no." Please see number 10 above. Forums rapidly change in value depending on the people who populate them, and don't often contain reference material that are useful to people seeking encyclopedic data. Thus criterion number 13 varies widely over time too, and unfortunately, as can be seen on many other articles, once one forum has been added, it seems to become popular for every forum operator and fan to try to promote their own favorite community discussion board over others. I'd vote to keep this kind of clutter out from the very outset. OldMan 14:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

...And just a clarification of the above discussion: I've playfully referred to myself as "Linkspam Police" in a recent reversion, but I WILL stop reverting external links especially if 1.) the link addition looks like it was added by an active Wikipedia participant, rather than a random drive-by linkspammer, OR 2.) The editor gives a good rationale on this page or in their edit summary explaining why their link should be exempt from the guidelines at WP:EL, OR 3.) Discussion here establishes a consensus for this article that exempts external links from the guidelines at WP:EL. I just want to make clear that I'm not trying to erase all the external links to be a big fat meanie; I just think exemptions from wikipedia policy should be clearly thought out and discussed first. Not trying to be a wet blanket... just keep the quality high.

In that vein, if any of you forum-promoters and fans want to copy any of the most useful reference material from your favorite forums into this article, that would be highly welcome! (Make sure you have permission!) I always like to learn new stuff about motorcycles, and Buells are good ones. OldMan 19:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I know of a few forums that you could learn a lot from. Too bad you removed them. =/ Now I remember why I stopped editing over at DMOZ. Too many King for a days there also.

I have added a link to this page leading to my site about Buell motorcyle history and it has been removed. I would argue that it is the best source on information on th early history of Buell and thus should be allowed. The link in question is www.davegess.com/buelhist/index.htm It is accurate and detailed with pictures and would be too long for inclusion as an entry to this project.

Comments?

Dave Sorry I didn't figure out the signature thing until now --Davegess 16:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Dave, I didn't remove your link (for once! <g>) but it does look like it was in violation of WP:EL under the section, "advertising and conflicts of interest." ("You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, even if the guidelines otherwise imply that it should be linked.") I see from your page that you claim copyright on the contents of that page, though, so would you consider donating some of that content to Wikipedia under the GNU Free Documentation License? There's certainly room for more detail in the history section of this article! Your contributions would be quite welcome. OldMan 17:37, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Dave, I did remove your link. Not only is it WP:COI, but I don't believe (opinion here) that a site can be the "best" at anything if it is isn't complete/still under construction[23]. Take OldMan's advice here, and enhance the article with information you feel is important. If you're just looking to promote your website, develop it to truly be the best and some other editor will include a link to it in the article as a reference. Also, while viewing the article, click the history tab at the top. This will show you all revisions to the article, and you will be able to see that I was the one who took your link out with this note "(rv to exclude COI external link. please see talk page discussion about links)" Corey Salzano 15:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

The repeated removal from the external links section recognizing BadWeatherBikers.com as a primary source of Buell information is unfortunate. BadWeatherBikers.com has been a major source of information for Buell motorcyclists for over a decade now. It is MUCH more than a mere discussion forum. It is an incredibly comprehensive information resource for anything and everything related to Buell motorcycles.

If no information resources that include any type of advertising are allowed on Wikipedia, then the "External Link" section will be much poorer a source of information. It's not advertising to provide to those who are interested in Buell motorcycles a link the the internet's most comprehensive and well-organized collection of Buell motorcycle information.

I'm not sure who is continuing to remove the link to BadWeatherBikers.com (BadWeB), but in its place there often appear links to commercial storefront sites aiming to sell Buell related merchandise; I agree that those cases indeed do constitute a blatant violation of the terms and intent of the rules being enforced here. Putting up a publicly available press release onto a storefront site does not make said storefront site a source of information. Buell/Harley-Davidson publish all their press releases on their web site. Enough said. BadWeB is not selling any merchandise, is not a storefront, and is only supported in its operation by sponsorship funds.

The same goes for Dave Gess' site that has a wonderful writeup on Buell history. It is just as ludicrous to remove his site from the external links section.

Whoever is deciding to eliminate these very important resources of Buell motorcycle information from this Buell wiki is doing a huge diservice to the public!

Blake Rudy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.255.27.65 (talk) 16:35, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Ad Copy?

This entry reads very much like a Buell advertisement. I believe it should be rewritten from a more neutral perspective with regards to Buell's attributes and innovations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.17.242.187 (talk) 23:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

I agree wholeheartedly with the preceding statement. This page is nothing more than an advertisement for Buell. --Sle (talk) 23:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I have added two sources to this article along with a references section. The first paragraph reads a lot better now, too. Corey Salzano (talk) 15:21, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Super pov

Wonder why no MotoGP bike adept the ultimate idea of Buell. I belive that Buell is the best race machine who never made it to the tracks. Ppl who confuse reality and psp-worlds. I still believe that the article should breath the philosophy of the motorcycle and the ambition of it. But as long Buell gets beaten by Honda and Yamaha superbikes or race bikes its only ambitions of a race machine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.119.180 (talk) 03:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Models?

Why are there no articles for each seperate model? - Adolphus79 02:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Because nobody has started writing one.... feel free to make a start! Mathmo ^Talk 11:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

On the Blast description, only the first 3 sentences provide useful info, the rest is all POV. I disagree with every point. Over priced? That's very much a personal decision. Functionality of front brake and clutch, bike weight? Those also are a matter of preference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krjoseph (talk • contribs) 22:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the above. The unsuitability for new riders is something that is entirely subjective. Many new riders end up with much more unsuitable machines in my experience... The tone and style of that particular segment is not in keeping with the rest of Wikipedia in my opinion too. MarJay (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I'm new here, but would like to add a photo of a model that is not already represented by photo. I created an account, and uploaded the photo to the Commons (filename Buell_1125R.jpg, I believe), but I'm having trouble getting it into the article. Could someone either tell me how to do it (I probably won't edit enough articles to reach "autoconfirmed" status), or just upload the photo from the Commons for me? The photo was taken by me, shows my own bike, and is not subject to any copyright. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarcoDeSade (talk • contribs) 00:31, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

New sources, clean up now needed

I removed the inadequate sources tags and replaced them with a clean up tag. I've added three sources to this article today that have lots of facts that could be used to expand this article. Thanks for any help you may offer. Corey Salzano (talk) 14:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Perimetral disc brake reducing unsprung weight?

How so? If anything, being much larger than a standard one, it INCREASES the wheel's weight. The perimetral disc only makes braking more efficient by putting the braking system in the outside of the wheel where less torsion is needed to counter the wheel's force. --uKER (talk) 05:36, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Easy, the Buell systems uses a single disc with the corresponding weight reduction that brings through having one fewer than a traditional setup i.e. less hoses, bolts and brake fluid. I updated the article to make this more clear.--Biker Biker (talk) 06:49, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

What I heard at the time was that it was due to (a) the rim not needing to be as strong, since the forces go directly to the tire, and (b) no supporting hardware (the center part of the disc). Of course, it has other problems.. tedder (talk) 07:03, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

While true that the setup eliminates the need for additional brake fluid, bolts, etc., I think the main savings is in the elimination of the second disk and caliper themselves. Also, the disk does not mount directly to the tire of course; it bolts to several lugs manufactured just inside the rim. This eliminates the need for the heavier hub mount MarcoDeSade (talk) 00:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Buell vs Buell

I made some edits today, and made me think of a Manual of Style type thing. I'm using "Buell" to refer to the company, and "Erik Buell" to refer to the person. It's against MOS to use "Erik", so "Erik Buell" seemed to make the most sense. Posting here because I hope that's a decent way to keep the article. tedder (talk) 05:37, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Errors on this page.... as of 12 May 2011

This is wrong... Quote from article 12 May 2011, "The company first partnered with Harley-Davidson in 1993,..." In fact it was the "Buell Motor Company" that partnered with Harley Davidson in 1993 to CREATE the "Buell Motorcycle Company".

"Variations on the RR 1000 Battletwin include the RR 1200 Battletwin (1988–1990), the RS 1200 Westwind (1989), the RS 1200/5 Westwind (1990–1992) and the RSS 1200 Westwind (1991."

RS1200 Westwind was built in 1989 (production 7) and 1990 (production 95) not only 1989. RS1200/5 Started in 1991 (could not be 1990 as Harley had not made the 5 speed engine yet) and the last three were made in 1993.

"...and the RSS 1200 Westwind (1991)." The RSS model was not announced until September 1 1992.

These are serious mistakes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agusta74 (talk • contribs) 02:42, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Information all from the book "25 years of Buell" 2008. Gavin Bedggood (owner of a 1990 RS1200 that the orginal article says does not exist!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agusta74 (talk • contribs) 02:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

It looks like you have interesting information to add and a reliable source to back you up. Now you need to combine these two elements if you want to make valid edits to the article. Read Wikipedia:Citing sources and reference the book appropriately. Also, please try to keep the formatting of your edits consistent with the current formatting of the article. Note that I am not an expert on this subject matter, so if the source you suggested provides information that is countered by other reliable sources, then your source will probably be deemed unreliable and your edits could be reverted. Ebikeguy (talk) 13:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

There is absolutely no need to have two articles - just expand this one. The history of Buell back into the early eighties is briefly covered in this article, and with your help it could be greatly expanded - with proper reliable sources of course. --Biker Biker (talk) 20:33, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

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