Talk:Buddy Hield

Buddy Hield was offered a scholarship by Kansas University and Bill Self

Good to know you guys are committed to accurate articles. I even get shut down when I provided multiple links. Really mature. Oh and thanks for actually engaging in dialogue with me about this instead of being totally silent and dismissive. Again, bang up job.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Swishymcjackass (talk • contribs) 14:13, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Kansas University men's basketball program offered a scholarship to Buddy. The KC Star reported this: “We recruited him,” Self said, “but you go back and look at it, we’ve had some pretty good players here, too. And you say (during recruiting): ‘Buddy is good, he can come and make us better. But can he impact us like he (has) impacted OU?’ “The answer would probably be yes. But we probably thought, at the time, ‘We’d love to get him,’ but OU probably pressed him more and did a better job recruiting him. And they ended up getting him.” Kansas City Star, January 3, 2016. In this quote, Bill Self flat out states that KU recruited him. As the Detroit Free Press states, "Some thought Hield was crazy for picking Oklahoma over Kansas as a high-profile recruit out of Sunrise Christian Academy in Bel Aire, Kan., in 2012." You can find that comment here: OU's Hield represent Bahamas, Detroit Free Press.--ML (talk) 15:09, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

You do realize that recruiting is not the same as offering a scholarship, right? Guys get recruited all the time without getting a scholarship offer. You're being obtuse.Swishymcjackass (talk • contribs) 15:20, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

You are demanding that we talk. And that's fine, but we are going to talk on your talk page or we don't talk. Stop leaving your comments on my talk page. Now, I have been doing all of the talking. All you have been doing is reverting editing and putting in information without reliable sources. You want to make the argument that KU did not offer Buddy a scholarship then provide a reliable source that states that. Right now it is your word to support that contention. But neither your word or my word is worth anything on Wikipedia. Our edits must be supported by reliable sources. Please provide a reliable source to support your claim that Self did not offer a scholarship. I have provided a reliable source that quotes Self stating that Self and his staff recruited Buddy while he played high school basketball in Wichita. Please respond here, not on my talk page, so we can keep the discussion all in one place.--ML (talk) 15:35, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I gave two sources that showed Buddy Hield without a scholarship offer from Kansas. ESPN is a nationally recognized sports news source, as is Rivals.com. Both were deleted. If we have different opinions on what is or is not a reliable source, then I can just assume you are only interested in sources that support your argument.Swishymcjackass (talk • contribs) 15:50, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

There are quite a few incorrect comments wrapped up in your response above. First of all, I know who ESPN is, just like most of the known world so that was uncalled for. I also know who Rivals.com is. So I don't question who they are. They are reliable sources. I never questioned whether they are reliable sources. That is red herring. What I questioned is that either of those articles stated definitively that Buddy did not get a scholarship offer from KU. I looked at both of them and neither of them said that. If I missed something then I am more than willing to look at it. Why don't you provide the exact wording to me that definitively states Buddy DID NOT get offered a scholarship from Bill Self and KU. Now, while you have sending me messages which for the most part are rude and unproductive I took the time to look for more reliable sources. I have found an article in Bleacher Report written by Jason King where King flat out says (word for word) that Buddy was offered a scholarship from KU. You can review it here: King states: "As the 86th-ranked player in the 2012 class by Rivals.com, Hield had been offered a scholarship by tradition-rich Kansas prior to his senior season. But he canceled his official visit and committed to Oklahoma following a trip to Norman, where Kruger had been hired to resurrect a dormant program." Please find something that comes from a reliable source that is 180 degrees different than what I just quoted and then we will then have something to talk about. Seriously, please track down the ESPN and Rivals.com quotes and bring them here so we talk about it.--ML (talk) 16:29, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Well, if you look at the link I attributed to my statement before it was removed, it showed definitively on his Rivals recruit profile that he had been recruited by Kansas but not given an offer. On ESPN, his profile doesn't even bother to list Kansas. Apart from Wikipedia and that one article about him, I can't find anyone alleging that KU offered him anything but perhaps a walk-on spot. I don't know where Jason King gets his information, but the fact that it isn't listed on a single recruiting site at all makes me question the veracity of his claim. -- Swishymcjackass (talk • contribs) 16:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Signed your comments.--ML (talk) 17:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I am not going to go back and look up that link from Rivals.com and I am not going to go look up that like from ESPN. If you want me to review them then you back look them up and you paste them here for me to read. Otherwise, I am going to assume that my initial review of them was correct and that they do not state definitively that Buddy did not ever get an offer from Bill Self and KU. If you want to change the consensus then you need to do the work to make that change happen. And sign your comments.--ML (talk) 17:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I've included 4 links. There may be more, but these were the first ones I found.

http://www.scout.com/topic/players?s=172&team=%2522Oklahoma%2522&minimumInterest=%2522SoftVerbal%2522&category=%2522Basketball%2520Recruiting%2522&league=%2522HS%2522&classYear=2012 (this link covers all recruits Kansas had interest in for the 2012 recruiting year. Buddy Hield is not listed)

We don't know that this link covers all recruits. These lists are not all inclusive.--ML (talk) 22:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1110675-sunday-night-loaded-with-pledges (this article covers his commitment and makes no mention of Kansas)

Just because it makes no mention of Kansas do not mean that he did get a scholarship offer from Kansas.--ML (talk) 22:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/119977 (Rivals show KU having recruited Hield, but no scholarship offer made)

Once again, just because Rivals show no scholarship offer does not mean that one was not offered. We have a reliable source that states that he was offered a scholarship from Bill Self.--ML (talk) 22:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/143036/buddy-hield (in this link, KU is not listed as having even recruited Hield)

Once again this does not prove anything. It only proves that these recruiting lists are inconsistent with each other. As a matter of fact we have direct quote from Bill Self stating that they recruited Buddy, so that means this ESPN recruiting list is incorrect. Who are going to believe ESPN (a reporter) or Bill Self the man that makes the recruiting decisions for KU? I'm going with Bill Self.--ML (talk) 22:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Those links do not prove anything. They are all inconsistent with each other. They all list different information about Buddy and some of them do not say anything about Buddy Hield. No one can draw any kind of conclusion about the scholarship offer from Bill Self from these sources, some of which I would not characterize as reliable sources.

correction to that first link: http://www.scout.com/college/kansas/2012-basketball-prospects?minimumInterest=None sorry about that. -- Swishymcjackass (talk • contribs) 16:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

look, man. you want to know what those links do? they present 4 separate sources that cast doubt on your one single quotation to which you are clinging, because you don't want to have to admit you might be wrong. keep on keepin' on, pal. at least i know what you're really concerned with here, and that's maintaining the status quo. - Swishymcjackass

I have moved the discussion to the Buddy Hield talk page so that other editors might chime in. As to your comment, you are attacking me personally that is not appropriate. It only shows that you don't have a reliable source to back up your contention. I have an actual that states definitively that Hield was offered a scholarship by KU and Bill Self and Buddy turned it down and went to OU. I don't know why this is such a big deal for you. I am a Jayhawk and I'm not offended by this fact. Buddy did what Buddy felt like was the best thing for him to do for his career and it is working out great for him. He won the National Player of the Year and he is probably going to go high in the 1st round of the NBA draft--the things that he stated that he wanted to accomplish. Just find a reliable source that refutes what I have found and we can amend the article. That's all.--ML (talk) 15:06, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

attacking you personally? wow, someone has thin skin. i pointed out the fact that you are dead set against admitting that there are multiple links that dispute your one single quotation, which is absolutely the case. I don't know how you misconstrued that as a personal attack. I don't know you personally, nor do I know anything about you other than the fact that you like to be right just as much as I do, so I couldn't possibly personally attack you. At least not effectively. But I digress. Journalists frequently make mistakes in phrasing. Being recruited is often misidentified as "being offered a scholarship." You yourself made a similar assumption a few days ago in the earlier link you provided, when you read "recruited" and assumed that meant "scholarship." It's not unheard of to assume a similar mistake was made in this article, especially when every reputable sports recruiting website lists him as having NOT received a scholarship offer from Kansas. - Swishymcjackass — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swishymcjackass (talk • contribs) 16:04, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't have thin skin. I just pointed out that you attacked my motives instead of providing reliable sources. I don't too upset the personal attacks because I know they are just words, now there are editors who do, but that is another topic for another time. Let's just stick to reliable sources. I did not "assume" that recruited means "scholarship" because I know that Bill Self offered an actual scholarship to Buddy. As a matter of fact I remember watching a TV interview with Self a few years ago where he stated he does not talk about recruits until he offers them an actual scholarship because he does not want to give the impression that a player is being considered for scholarship until the offer actually happens. Also, I have only provide one article that uses the word scholarship, but Self is quoted in that article and Self has not condemned that article as being incorrect so I am going to assume that it is correct. And finally when I find some time I will look for another article. I just provided the first one that found. I'm sure that there are others I just haven't put too much time into it. But what we do know that Bill Self has been quoted in several articles flat out stating that he recruited Buddy and one of those links above that you provided did not even have Kansas as one of the schools pursuing Buddy so we know that link is absolutely worthless. This is the link: Scout Hoops. Go find better reliable sources that support your belief that Buddy did not get a scholarship from KU. Right now I have a reliable source--Jason King--who says that Buddy was offered a scholarship from KU. Get the source and we can talk again.--ML (talk) 16:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

I just took a quick look and I found another article that states unequivocally that KU's Bill Self offered Buddy Hield a basketball scholarship. It is from Rivals.com, one of the reliable sources that you quoted above. Rivals.com states that Buddy received a scholarship offer from Self. That reliable source right there certainly seals this discussion, unless you can find a reliable source that states something that is 180 degree different.--ML (talk) 17:17, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Well, if you have a link to said article, I'd be happy to read it. Until you provide it, I'll assume you are making it up. In the meantime, I posed the question to a large group of people, and it seems they all agree with me, including the person who runs the site and knows more about KU recruiting than you or I can ever even hope to know. if you would like to peruse the discussion, you can feel free. But I'm sure it's just as "unreliable" as everything else I've posted because you didn't find it yourself and it doesn't correspond neatly to the narrative you choose to believe. http://kansas.247sports.com/Board/59455/Contents/settle-something-for-me-44684772 - Swishymcjackass — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swishymcjackass (talk • contribs) 12:43, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

You are simply attacking me instead of providing reliable sources. Also, you make the incorrect claim that I did not post the link for the second article. Of course I did. It was posted right at the end of the first sentence of the last paragraph I wrote since you apparently missed it. You can also look at it here: Young, RJ (January 18, 2013). "OU's Buddy Hield won't back down from challenge". Rivals.com. Sunnyvale, California. Retrieved April 7, 2016. That's the kind of discipline that receives recruiting attention from Colorado. From Kansas. From Oklahoma. Of those three, Kansas seems the obvious choice for a basketball player -- especially one who played high school ball in the Sunflower State. Jayhawk basketball is as rich in tradition and committed to winning championships as any program in the country. So why turn down Kansas men's basketball coach Bill Self if he offers you a scholarship?--ML (talk) 14:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

I looked at your link to the 247Sports.com talk page about KU. I read all of the comments and none of these people you are talking to are experts. They are just guys like you and me, throwing out mere speculation of what they think happened four or five years ago. You are one of the commentators. Your opinion is not acceptable as a reliable source. My opinion is not acceptable as a reliable source. The opinion of random guys on a talk board are not reliable sources. By the way, some of these guys either stated that they have no idea of what transpired (the honest ones) or they disagreed with you. There were nine (9) posts in the discussion started by you. Two (2) of the posts were by you, therefore, that leaves seven (7) posts. Of these seven (7) posts one (1) was a duplicate post by a poster. Therefore, there is 6 posters who commented on your loaded question. From my reading of those six poster responses the breakdown of opinions is as follows: AGREED: 2 posters, DISAGREED: 1 poster, and NO OPINION/DOES NOT REMEMBER/OFF TOPIC: 3 posters. So the greatest number of the votes was either No Opinion/Doesn't Remember with 3 posters, which is one half of the posters. Of the three (3) posters that dared to express an opinion two agreed with you (neither of them provided any real proof to support their opinions) and one poster disagreed with you. That is not resounding proof of your theory. I have provided two reliable sources that state flat out that Buddy received a scholarship from KU and you have provided a discussion board where you lead the discussion. It is not an acceptable reliable source. Please review the Wikipedia guidelines on reliable sources here: Wikipedia:RELIABLE.--ML (talk) 14:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

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