Talk:Brooks Laich/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: CutOffTies (talk) 21:18, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I will be reviewing this article. I hope to get an initial assessment up today, perhaps before the 2010 NHL Winter Classic.

Note, I tend to give a lot of suggestions to improve the article that aren't necessarily related to the GA criteria, and it is up to you to implement them or not. --CutOffTies (talk) 21:18, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Initial comments

• 3 dab links should be fixed.
  • Fixed. Canada Hky (talk) 22:37, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

• The image does not contain alt text.
  • Done. Canada Hky (talk) 22:37, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

• A quick look on flickr shows plenty of available images to upload (right copyright). Please see this page if you need instructions on how to upload images in this situation.
  • That's where I got the images in the article already. There aren't any images on Flickr that show anything particularly different about Laich, so at this point, I think adding additional images would just be decoration rather than adding any understanding.Canada Hky (talk) 22:37, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
    • Understood --CutOffTies (talk) 23:23, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

• The references look pretty good; however I would prefer more newspaper articles (indepedent, third party) such as the ones from The Washington Post or The Seattle Times as opposed to the player profile on Hockey Canada (primary-ish). Have you scoured google news archive? Do you have access to an reference database through a library? I quickly found an article from a newspaper near his minor league team in Hershey. Leave a note on my talk page if you need help accessing a reference db.
  • I would too, unfortunately a lot of the information provided by Hockey Canada and the Caps in their player profiles isn't available in other forms.Canada Hky (talk) 22:37, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
    • Well, the article can benefit from more content/references, not so much to replace the existing facts cited by the profile pages, but to balance it out a little..
      • OK, I'll take a look, and try to balance this out a bit more.

• Building on the last note, the article seems a bit brief and should be expanded.
  • Is there something in particular that you feel is missing?Canada Hky (talk) 22:37, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
    • A couple things jump out initially.. more will probably be apparent as I go through each section.:
      • No Early life section. It says where he grew up and there's a bit about his family in Personal life, but I would like to see more about his background.
      • There's little about his playing style. It says he improved his offensive game, and the quote about going to net is good, but I would like more of a summary of the way he plays.
        • The early life stuff is kind of split up, I will see how it works, and try to add some more playing style info.

References

I found some refs, if you're interested. As I said before, for the ones offline, if you want I can probably get the full text:

• Unsung Capital Is Right In Tune, Wash Post
• Laich trying to impress Caps Lebanon Daily News (abstract) )
• Trade to Caps stuns Sens' Laich Press & Sun-Bulletin - Binghamton, N.Y. (abstract)
  • Can you get the fulltext of this article? I have good access to Canadian papers, but not so good for American papers.  :) I appreciate your help.
    • Unfortunately, it turns out that my library doesn't carry this newspaper. I was able to get the Lebanon Daily News article, though I'm not sure if there's much to use there. Please let me know when you have the text --CutOffTies (talk) 13:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
      • I pulled the text off, thank you very much!
• Laich Grows Alongside Capitals, Wash Post
• Scoring From Unexpected Sources Sparks Caps, Wash Post
• Brooks Laich and the face that launched a thousand quips, Wash Post
• Capitals winger Brooks Laich is close to a return, Wash Post
• Laich survives slump, reaches new peak, nhl.com
  
• Brooks Laich's hit on Alex Ovechkin, Wash Post
• Brooks Laich is a skating scientist, Wash Post

I have added a bunch of these references when I could work them in, and have also expanded my use of non-Hockey Canada sources to more newspaper articles. I'd appreciate any further suggestions you might have.  :) Canada Hky (talk) 20:24, 2 January 2011 (UTC) --CutOffTies (talk) 21:59, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Sections

I'm going to comment by section. Again, these are just suggestions; take what you want from them. Once your reply is complete, then I will do the assessment. If any of my comments require clarification, please let me know.

Lead

• Was the Bondra trade so significant that it should be referred to as "the Peter Bondra trade"? It's not exactly Gretzky to Kings, Lindross to Flyers.. Slight rewording may be helpful here
  • Yeah, that was probably a bit overstated, Bondra was the main part of the deal so I've clarified that.

• How about "Laich spent time in the Western Hockey League for playing with the Moose Jaw Warriors and Seattle Thunderbirds"
  • Changed.

• The last two sentences start with "He".. a bit redundant. Perhaps you can put combine the two sentences in one, by removing the "twice"
  • I think this flows better now.

• Overall, the lead is good. I prefer to keep it brief and straightforward. That said, a sentence that distinguishes his play could help. I realize he's never won a significant award, nor has he been a NHL stat leader... perhaps the part about being a team leader you have in the playing style section?
  • I like short leads too.  :) I've added a sentence about his playing style and role on the team.

Hockey Career

• I know we discussed the lack of an Early life section before. In lieu of this, you identify his hometown in the text, and the Personal life section has brief information on his family. I'm assuming you don't have it, but if you have more on his hometown, schooling, parents, etc. an Early life section should be used... like Trevor Linden, Scott Stevens, Sidney Crosby. His hometown looks pretty small, is there anything he's said about coming from a rural place?
  • He hasn't said much - even locally during the offseason when he is around here. Kind of a quiet guy. For players without a lot of info available, or early in their careers, I have formatted it like this: Luke Schenn, Brayden Schenn, Clarke MacArthur. If the info becomes available, I will reorganize in the future.

Minor

• "played midget AAA hockey for the Tisdale Trojans, where he was the team's top scorer and most valuable player." is very similar to the text in the reference.
  • Thanks for noticing, and I have changed that.

Junior

• ", being named the club's Scholastic" - being is a bit awkward
  • I think its a bit smoother now

• "unpopular with Warrior fans".. "coach Dean Chynoweth providing ample opportunities for him to display his skill" - nice job, reflects the ref well. I wonder if there's more you can take from that ref.
  • I expanded this a bit, and used some of the info in other places in the article.

• "were good enough for sixth overall ".. a bit wordy, a simple "...and finished six overall..." may flow better.
  • Fixed.

• "He was named the WHL's Western Conference MVP at the end of the season" - seems extraneous.. when else are MVPs named?
  • Definitely true.

Professional

• More information on the Bondra trade would be helpful. Was Laich the main part of the deal from Ottawa? A better ref should be used too, along with a brief summary of the trade's significance.
  • I added the details about the trade. I'll work on significance. It was a much more significant trade for Bondra than for Laich, so I am going to think for a bit on how to integrate the info.
    • I think I have this, any suggestions would be appreciated.

• typo - "After ther trade"
  • Fixed.

• "The" is missing from "Portland Pirates"
  • Fixed.

• After the "Portland Pirates", a new sentence starts that may be combined with the previous to improve flow.
  • Agreed.

• You have a few dates of his debuts with the Sens and Caps that don't have a year. The reader can quickly figure it out, but seems like you may as well include it
  • True, and added.

• His season in the AHL during the lockout seems very brief. It's not clear that was with Portland. How did he play?
  • Added a bit of info.

• Should there be a comma in the salary arb figure?
  • Yep, missed that.

• 08-09 season. Pretty abrupt transition from the Pens series to a quote about his loyalty to the team. The tense of "has stated" after using a past tense of he did in the playoffs adds to the abruptness.
  • I moved the quote to the style section, I think it fits better there.

• 24/7 series should be linked
  • Done

• I don't quite get the line about his feelings on HBO's presence changing. The first part is about how he felt it had no affect on the losing streak. The second part is saying he doesn't feel like he should act. They seem unrelated.
  • Changed it, so that the quotes are still included, but not linked in quite the same way.

• In the last sentence, I like how you summarize his feelings from the article about having his family around in Pittsburgh. That said, perhaps there's too much straight quoting with the HBO stuff that could benefit from summarizing.
  • Shortened the quotes a bit. Let me know if it needs to be cut down more.

• Overall, nice job. Very good rundowns of his seasons and performance.

International play

• Instead of dreaming to play for Canada "all his life", how about has always dreamed of playing for Canada"?.. just a little tighter
  • Done.

• Varlamov's quote in the last sentence is missing a closing quote
  • Done.

Playing style

• First sentence of last paragraph.. I think "and is dedicated" sounds better than "who is"
  • Agreed.

• Speaking of dedication, "Dedicated" is used twice in the last paragraph
  • Fixed.

• Great job, the prose flows well here and I like how you present it.
  • Thank you!

Personal life

• I'm not sure of the value of listing his parents and siblings names.. seems like trivia. Perhaps list her parents occupation if you can find it, and whether his sister/brother are older/younger. Just would like information rather than just a random thing like a name
  • Adjusted this a bit.

• I found this ref [1]. Others may wonder if it qualifies as a reliable source, but it looks good to me...especially since the info is not contentious in the slightest
  • I've gone back and forth with that article since I started expanding this. I waffle because it is rather "fluffy" rather than strictly news. I don't think it is inaccurate or unreliable, just not as neutral as it could be.

Anyway, the article is strong, when you are done with my comments, please let me know and I'll do the assessment. Thanks. --CutOffTies (talk) 05:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that's everything, I'll drop a note on your talk page. I appreciate all your help with this article. Canada Hky (talk) 22:34, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Checklist

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): / b (MoS):

   Prose is mostly well-written, but some rough spots do remain - nothing major. It will benefit the article to ask a copyeditor to give it a quick run-through.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Article is well researched and referenced.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   For what appears to be a good but not great hockey player, this article has significant coverage. It is strong in summarizing his play on the ice. Some extra content could certainly help, if found.. what do hockey experts think of him? Also, I'd like to see more about his background/early life.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Solid tone throughout, no pov.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Article is very stable - almost no vandalism and no edit wars that I can see.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Images are very nice.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Nice job, congratulations. --CutOffTies (talk) 23:59, 3 January 2011 (UTC)