Talk:British Bangladeshis/Archive 1

Title

Common usage throughout the world is that terms of the kind "onenation othernational" mean those who are citizens of "othernation" with origins in "onenation" - in other words that the normal term for someone who was British with origins in Bangladesh would be "Bangladeshi British". "British-Banglades3hi" would describe someone who had immigrated to Bangladesh from Britain. That would agree with normal British grammar, where modifiers generally come before the noun; i.e. "tall British" rather than "British tall". To most people a person who described themselves as "British-Bangladeshi" would imply that they primarily identified as "Bangladeshi".

If "British-Bangladeshi" is really the most used term then we need references to support this, and certainly a mention in the article as to why. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The term is mainly used when describing the Bangladeshis in the UK, this is mentioned in various articles of the diaspora in newspapers etc. I was able to find one source that states we are known as 'British Bangladeshi', which can be found in the External Links section of the article, but have not found the reason to why it is stated like this. TheGreenEditor 21:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

A quick question re Faisal Islam

Hi, the section about notable British Bangladeshi people is looking nice and comprehensive these days. However, I was wondering whether Faisal Islam, the financial news presenter for Channel 4 news should be included. I think he's high profile and successful enough to merit inclusion, but I don't know whether or not he is of Bangladeshi origin. Does anyone else know? He looks Bengali and his surname is a common Bangladeshi Muslim name, but of course we'd need rather more confirmation than that! Cheers... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.174.8.253 (talk) 16:48, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Developing article

Hi there readers, just to say I have enjoyed developing and creating the article significantly by using various amounts of sources to create it and finding images on Flickr to be used on the article (hard work), it has a lot of information so hopefully it will be very knowledgeable and helpful. If there are any problems please say so, thanks, Bye! TheGreenEditor 17:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Impressed with this article. I was on Wikipedia about a year ago and read a piece about British Pakistanis. Being Bengali, I then typed in British Bangladeshis and was disappointed when I found we didn't have a corresponding article. I was too lazy to create it myself so glad someone else has got off his arse and written this. Thanks! (From a Brit-Bengali Wikipedia fan from Keighley, West Yorkshire). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.138.98.253 (talk) 12:45, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your comments, and your contribution and sorting out the Gang section, thanks. TheGreenEditor 14:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Review

I would like to nominate this article to a GA standard, because I believe it contains many information and contains all aspects of the international ethnic group. It will help readers who are looking through this ethnic group, by looking at the whole history about it, from Brick Lane to formations of present gangs. It provides information to the culture, religion and how business is managed by the people, and contains many important information of Demographics, and has been developed to it's best I believe. Please add any additional comments regarding on the topic, Thanks. TheGreenEditor 13:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

For a GA review, please, submit the article to WP:GAN (the process is described there). When that's done, one of the GA reviewers would come and review this article. If you want no-strings attached review from the community, please, submit this to WP:PR (again the process is described there). I really haven't seen GA reviews done the way it's proposed here (though, it looks like an interesting innovation). If you prefer I can do a review to the best of my abilities here, but that would not count as a GA review. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 07:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Copyright violations

It looks like significant portions of this article have either been lifted directly from London Review of Books, or have had very minor modifications to the wording. These are copyright violations. I've removed a couple of the obvious ones I could see, but I'd suggest that M Miah goes back and rewrites these sections, not just change the odd word. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I have already notified him about this in the ongoing peer review. Other sources have been copied besides the London Review of Books. But, I am sure that Miah will rewrite those parts, no matter how many of them are there. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 07:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

OK. Sorry, I didn't realise that it had been already noted. For Miah's future reference; it's not a good practice to fix this retrospectively. Things should be rewritten before being added, as an intermediate version with the copyright violations may be copied from the article onto other websites (under GNU License) where they can't be fixed. Copyright violations like that do not reflect well on Wikipedia. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 09:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and just in case I'm sounding too critical; the page is looking good. Excellent job by Miah. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 09:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Most of the words and sentences has been re-written, sorry for any confusions, forgot there were rules which I am clearly learning. TheGreenEditor 18:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Removed advertisment

I have removed the advertisement for Taj Stores from the article. Following is the copy that was removed:

One of the most well known stores and brands of Bangladeshi products is, Taj Stores. It has food delivered from all over the world with many products. Founded in 1936, Taj Stores is one of the oldest international grocers in the UK. Situated on Brick Lane, Taj Stores has a long tradition in serving the local community of London with only the finest quality seasonal produce, flown daily from Bangladesh. They are also the suppliers of quality goods, fresh food produce and spices to Retailers, Wholesalers, Shipping Agents, Caterers and the General Public, throughout London. It offers people with huge selections of freshly prepared food products from the world palate, for example, items such as Nan, Prawn crackers, Pitta-breads, samosa to delicious exotic sweets, beverages, halal meat, fresh fish and many more Bangladesh products.

I also have removed the spamlink to Taj Stores (which was this). Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 08:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah that's fine, I didn't realize it was kind of an advertisement for the people. TheGreenEditor 14:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Link to disambiguation page

Hello, all... out of fixing 752 links to the disambiguation page Punjabi, this page is the only one that caused a problem. Could someone please fix the sentence "The men dress up in their Sharwani or Punjabi, and the females usually wear the common shalwar kameez with many designs." so that it doesn't point to the disambiguation page? Thanks -Storkk (talk) 05:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Linked it to the article, Punjab region. M Miah (talk) 16:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

No, no. It's a piece of garment preferred by traditional Bengali men, nothing to do with Punjab or Punjabis. I guess we need to create a fresh article for Panjabi (clothing), and include it into the disambiguation page for Punjabi. I wonder why we haven't got an article on that already, with all the Dhoti, Sari, Lungi, and Choli featuring here. There are other discrepancies though, with Lehenga redirecting to Choli and Ghagra going without an article. I'll get it in a day or two. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 17:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The guy linked it to the page before, so I thought I'd link it to that. I couldn't find any pages, must be created. TheGreenEditor 18:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Changing article name

I am thinking of changing the article name from *British Bangladeshi* to *Bangladeshis in the United Kingdom*. Because the term really doesnt make any sense. Looking at how the way the article is structured with information, it looks more into how this ethnic group has come and established themselves in the country. People might find it very confusing, and I am sure a lot of people will type that, rather than British Bangladeshi. TheGreenEditor 20:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually forget it, changed me mind. TheGreenEditor 21:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• I have now decided to change the article name to Bangladeshi diaspora in the United Kingdom. I think this a more appropriate name of the article, because it relates to all of the people within the community in the UK, British Bangladeshi is just a term used, whereas the diaspora title makes more sense into relating what the article is about. I am going to change it now, if other do believe it is not, then please feel free to revert it and discuss. TheGreenEditor 19:19, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments on a rapidly eveolving article

Due to heroic efforts of M Miah, this article is rapidly evolving into an article we all can be proud of. But, I guess, there's still remains a few areas of improvement that, when improved, can launch the article into the stratospheric standard of our best quality articles (GAs/FAs). I'll try to go section by section here.

Politics

Like, say, the following paragraph from the politics sub-section, which is in bad need of copyedit (currently it makes little sense):

There has been increasing rivalry between the Islamist activists and those who favor the secular way of representation of their groups, this has taken place mainly due to the relationship between politics and religion. These differences between the activists reflects the current situation of which religious issues have entered the political arena in Bangladesh from the start of Bangladesh history. The struggle and tension between groups during the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971 has been re-interpreted on British soil again not with conflict, but by presenting through the representation of the space and community.

There also are a few areas where information is badly lacking. Here are a few links that could help:

• Forced out, looking inwards: Britain's Bangladeshis, New Stateman
• Voting right of non-resident Bangladeshis, The Daily Star
• Bangladeshis: Moving with the times, The Daily Star

Much of Islamic politics bits is spread all over the place, while my quick study tells the core information is that the politics among the Bangladeshi community is veering from secular to religious (comprehensively narrated here and here). May be that story needs to come out for coherent understanding of the information. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 15:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey there Kabir, thanks a lot for the details and areas which need improving. I have looked on to areas which need improving, especially to make it sound more proffesional, but hey I could really use your help in one of these you know, fix sentences a bit detailed and such I would really appreciate it, thanks. (my skills in English are quite rubbish, so I will need help bro, thanks.) TheGreenEditor 16:16, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I have tried to improve that opening paragraph, by applying some parts of the history that led to these rivalries, but I think more needs to be added. TheGreenEditor 18:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed - this article is looking increasingly impressive. There are a few grammatical problems in some sections though. When I have time, I intend to have a look at those and sort them out. However, I will NOT be changing the actual information and content, because I don't really have much problem with that! I'll only be working on the language - nothing else! (from a Brit-Bangla wikipedia fan in Keighley, West Yorkshire) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.138.98.253 (talk) 07:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, 'Brit-Bangla' fan (u shud join the site) TheGreenEditor 19:22, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

New finds

I have started dredging up useful links, to tell the truth, to find you stuff for the 1971 bit. I'll keep adding new links here, if you don't mind. These may be useful in developing the content. Here goes:

• Bangladeshi Community from BBC
• Early History and migration from University of Surrey
• An amazing book with an amazing amount of information and commentary by Pamela K. Gilbert
• Another amazing book with amazing information and commentary by Tasleem Shakur and Karen D'Souza
• A book that discusses relevant public policies in the UK by Glenn C. Loury, Tariq Modood and Steven Michael
• Heapload of stuff on return migration by Robyn R. Iredale, Fei Guo and Santi Rozario

Thanks for accepting me as a friend here in developing the article. I am feeling proud to be a helping hand in shaping up the great article that was almost single-handedly developed by you. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 04:26, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Aditya, this is great, a lot of information about the community fantastic! great job! I'll get right on it, but I might need to go on a break from this article and the site, too much hard work giving me a headache! Thank you very much! TheGreenEditor 19:31, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Here are some more info:

• Health study research paper on British Bangladeshi people, T Greenhalgh, C Helman, AM Chowdhury - BMJ: British Medical Journal, 1998
• The Ethnic Minority ‘Underachievingʼ Group? Investigating the Claims of ‘Underachievementʼ amongst Bangladeshi Pupils in British Secondary Schools, Author: Haque Source: Race, ethnicity and education year:2000 vol:3 iss:2 page:145 ISSN:1361-3324
• Diabetes in British South Asians: Nature, Nurture, and Culture, P.M. Greenhalgh
• Death of a migrant: transnational death rituals and gender among British Sylhetis, Katy Gardner, Global Networks Volume 2 Issue 3, Pages 191 - 204

You can find most of them via Google Scholar. If you need to access something else, please drop me a note.

Great job as well Ragib thanks a lot for your help as well. TheGreenEditor 20:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

BTW, what's the significance of the Hummer photo? If not relevant, that can be removed to reduce the number of photos in the article. Thanks. --Ragib (talk) 19:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that image looks alright, it backs up the text very well, and shows the cars are really expensive. 90.209.182.29 (talk) 18:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

• The cover story of Star Magazine, a Bangladeshi newspaper supplement, that might have some info for the article. → AA ^(talk) — 17:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Altab Ali Park Image

Since we already have the nice Altab Ali Park image with the "Shaheed Minar", do we need to keep the poor quality image of the park gate which appears to be more of an image of a person picking his nose than an image of a park?! Arman ^(Talk) 07:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah that was a rubbish image anyway which I took, damn couldn't get a better image that man had to pick his nose! hopefully I will get another later. TheGreenEditor 16:45, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:British Bangladeshi/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I would like to nominate this article to a GA standard, because I believe it contains many information and contains all aspects of the international ethnic group. It will help readers who are looking through this ethnic group, by looking at the whole history about it, from Brick Lane to formations of present gangs. It provides information to the culture, religion and how business is managed by the people, and contains many important information of Demographics, and has been developed to it's best I believe. Please add any additional comments regarding on the topic, Thanks. TheGreenEditor 10:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Review

An interesting and informative article which deserves GA status. I have a few comments on how the article could be improved.

• The article is probably too long. Guidelines suggest a page size of 30-50kB and this article far exceeds this. Consider putting some sections into new articles.
• Some words were not wikified that I might have expected to be. Example include, diaspora which I have just wikified, British India, 1950s, ... This is just a suggestion but don't go overboard because having too many links can affect readability. On the other hand there is a nice scattering of redlinks to encourage people to start new articles.
• Neutral tone: some sentences are not neutral. An example from the first paragraph might be The community is thriving in the capital. This is an opinion rather than a verifiable fact. A source is cited in that sentence so it would be fine to quote from it: According to XXX, the community is thriving in the capital. Done
• There are several examples of sweeping statements such as But when they arrived they faced many problems. A better way to phrase it might be Various problems were experienced by many of the immigrants. Another example: The hostility and social deprivation they faced meant they did not feel accepted as British. You should to be careful not to generalise too much without making it clear that it is a generalisation. Done
• All the sections are well written and relevant to the topic.
• There are a lot of pictures and they all seem to be appropriate and be okay with the copyright status, etc.
• In many cases The Banglasheshis... is used when perhaps The is not needed. For example Bangladeshis have the highest rates of illnesses in the UK, as of 2001. sounds better to my ear. Done
• Referencing is excellent throughout the article.

The only issues above which are stopping me promoting the article are the third and fourth bullet points, which are verging on bias. I shall put the review on hold till these are addresses. The other points can perhaps be considered later. MSGJ (talk) 21:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

References

Promoted

All the GA issues seem to be resolved, so I have promoted the article to GA status. Congratulations to TheGreenEditor for all his hard work. Getting this to featured status will likely require a huge amount of work but there is no reason why it shouldn't get there. MSGJ (talk) 11:07, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Gangs

I think we do not need to name any gangs unless they are notable in some way (and meet the Notability criteria). Plus we need more refs for that section. → AA ^(talk) — 23:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, yeah the only gangs mentioned with a source is the Brick Lane, Shadwell and others. The rest are were just added, I'll remove them. TheGreenEditor 07:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Good article, though lacking in balance

Kudos to the authors for putting in all the hard work on this. However, in addition to having a heavy Sylheti slant, it also reveals bias against non-Sylheti Bangladeshis in various subjective statements, for example those relating to religion. I have tried to restore some balance to the article. --Peripatetic (talk) 14:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. That statement however is backed up by two sources in that section, it could however be phrased differently. There is a lot of studies on Sylhetis as it forms 95 per cent of the pop., so the article will be however quite focused on the Sylhetis. The info of new workers is a new event, so thanks for the addition. TheGreenEditor 15:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Good article, been doing research on this subject for a project; thought I might contribute to remittance section which is my area of expertise

According to El Qorchi, Wilson and Maimbo, nearly 60% of remittances to Bangladesh in the period 1981 to 2000 went through “informal channels”. Yet according to Blackwell & Seddon, Bangladeshis appear to be somewhat suspicious of the “informal” money transmitting systems and of money transmitters and money lenders in general. Anecdotal evidence suggested that they often prefer to make use of a courier, or to take funds home themselves if possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elliotzissman (talk • contribs) 17:24, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Elcor101, 23 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Change

Religion

Islam · Irreligious

to

Religion

Islam · Hinduism

Irreligion hasn't been verily substantiated within the British Bangladeshi Diaspora, more evidentually Hinduism is prevalent, as most noticibly within in the British Bangladesh Diaspora.

Elcor101 (talk) 21:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The source for the religion statistics in the article suggest that the number of British Bangladeshis stating that they have no religion or are Hindus is very small. I'm therefore going to remove "Irreligious" but I won't replace it with "Hinduism". Cordless Larry (talk) 21:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Regions with significant population

I think it should just be changed to certain regions or cities without stating the population because the information that is there now doesn't seem to make much sense. The population in each cities seem to be underestimated and other major cities with much more Bangladeshi population is not mentioned.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.102.100.28 (talk • contribs) 18:36, 9 August 2011‎ (UTC)

Updates required

This article is starting to become somewhat dated, and there's a lot of reliance on data from the 2001 census. I think this needs to be updated with the help of the 2011 census, otherwise the article's GA status is in danger. I don't really have time to look up all the updated data and make the necessary changes, but I might be able to contribute if other editors were willing to share the work. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

User:AHLM13 and Tanbircdq, rather than edit warring over the name of the article, perhaps you could try to help out with dealing with these issues, that threaten the article's GA status? Cordless Larry (talk) 16:04, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

User:Cordless Larry, you are right. In fact he is the last to undo my revision. I hope that he will give some explanations here. -- AHLM13 talk 16:06, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

AHLM13, your article move yesterday was reverted. Once that's happened, you shouldn't move the article again without discussion, like you did today. You need to follow the instructions at WP:RMUM if you want to request a move. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:15, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

AHLM13, I already gave you my explanation on this as well as many other issues on your talk page here, which you appear to have decided to ignore. So I'll ask you again; please stop making controversial moves of pages without attempting to obtain community consensus. I noticed you have moved the articles Sayeeda Warsi, Baroness Warsi ‎and Pola Uddin, Baroness Uddin. You said here that you did this because you didn't know about WP:NCPEER. However, it appears you have gone and done the same thing on this page, again without making any attempt to discuss the issue first. Tanbircdq (talk) 18:55, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

I explained to his talk page-- AHLM13 talk 19:08, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Notification of article title related discussion at Talk:Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom

There is currently a thread started at: Talk:Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom#Pluralisation of ethnic group titles perhaps as "British people of <x origin> descent" as per Categories.

Contributions welcome. GregKaye 09:54, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:British Bangladeshi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

---

This has been a good article since January 2009. Unfortunately, in the six and a half years that have passed since then, the article has become very dated and has declined in quality as a result of a lack of maintenance. As a result, I feel that it no longer meets the GA criteria.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   The article would need copy-editing to resolve grammar mistakes (e.g. "In 2008,Guild of Bangladeshi Restaurateurs members raised member concern that many restaurants came under threat"). There are some inconsistencies of style (e.g. % versus per cent). There are significant WP:REALTIME issues with the article, such as "In recent years, there has been a slight increase in the numbers of Bangladeshi students arriving to the United Kingdom", sourced to a 2007 publication.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   The reference list is in reasonable shape, but there are a few citation template errors that need fixing. There is a statement in the lede that is not supported by the source cited.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   The article is broad in its coverage, but much of the coverage is dated. Much of the statistical information in the article comes from the 2001 rather than the 2011 census. Other examples include "About 30% of all remittance sent to Bangladesh are from Britain as of 1987".

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Seems OK.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   There was some edit warring over the images featured in the infobox earlier this year, but this appears to have stopped.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   The image quality of File:Globe Town Massive (cropped version).png is quite poor.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Quite a lot of work is required here, and my attempt to find editors to help with this did not attract any volunteers. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:36, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Daily Mail and Daily Star references

Thanks for this edit, Escape Orbit. Regarding your edit summary, it's not that Daily Star, but the Bangladeshi one. I think we should try to dispense with the Daily Mail as a source, though. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:35, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Ah. I did wonder. It seemed rather outside its usual coverage of Z-list celebs and soap-stars. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:57, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090111104450/http://www.cityultima.com/Bangladeshi to http://www.cityultima.com/Bangladeshi

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