Talk:Brain-derived neurotrophic factor/Archive 1

Archive 1

BDNF and baldness

This article claim there is a link between BDNC and baldness. I kind of felt that is far fetched and may provoke edit war if inserted on the front page. I however, feel it may be worth analysis by some medical oriented wikipedian [1]

BDNF suppliers

It would be nice to know or have links to BDNF suppliers, or more detailed information on the manufacturing process. Current prices vary but 220 dollars US for 10 micrograms makes therputic applications of this protein prohibitively expensive. Also, from a chemistry standpoint BDNF is too complicated to synthesize. Other routes must be found to synthesize this high molecular weight protein. Why arent more people proposing this as an interim solution to neurocognitive theraputics in the abscence of stem cell therapy?

Microswitch

Rather than being synthesizid chemically, large molecular weight proteins are usually produced by expressing them in cell culture. The simplest way would be to insert the gene encoding them into an expression vector such as E. coli. However prokaryotes don't add the same post-translational modifications to proteins that we eukaryotes do, which is why yeast expression systems are often more appropriate. You can even express proteins in plant and mammalian cell culture. Maybe you could search the literature for an 'expression system' for BDNF.

Jemma

Regarding last sentence in Effects of stress...

Electro shock therapy? anti depressants help to maintain the brain? whatis this. Sure there has been rumors at short term neurogenesis but the statement says that it helps maintain the brain and NO CITATION!!!!!...

Gene expression

The only antidepressant that restores brain derived neurophic gene expression is the new drug stablon, a serotonin reuptake enhancer.

NPR reported Nature Medicine has published new research from UCSD using BDNF against Alzheimers disease in monkeys. http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/02/08/growth.factor.protects.key.brain.cells.alzheimers.models —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetech (talk • contribs) 01:02, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I would like to see proof that ssris actually restore brain derived neurophic gene expression, as opposed to actually making it worse.

SSRIs have been proven by the FDA to perminantly desnsitize 5HTP receptors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.170.39.35 (talk) 12:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

SSRIs increase BDNF levels. http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n1/abs/1301571a.html Millionmice (talk) 11:24, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Curcumin

I went to the citation that was nearest the mention of curcumin having an effect on BDNF, but the link did not appear to mention curcumin at all. I do not have access to the full text, but from the look of it I believe that another citation is necessary for further reading on the correlation between curcumin and BDNF.

Sleep Deprivation

The article suggests that BDNF is positively correlated with sleep deprivation. However, the article cited claims only that the effectiveness of sertraline on BDNF is positively correlated with sleep deprivation. That is, sleep deprivation accelerates the effect of sertraline on BDNF. Sleep deprivation itself, however, has been found to reduce BDNF: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006899300027086

Please fix! I will fix it myself if I get a chance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.133.212.222 (talk) 23:56, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. Agree, the article states "First single sleep deprivation and a series of three sleep deprivations accelerated the treatment response that significantly decreased HAM-D scores and increased BDNF levels.", and did not include a intervention arm with sleep deprivation alone. Millionmice (talk) 11:32, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Drugs/Supplements Increasing BDNF

A list of drugs which increase BDNF may be useful. They are used by some for their nootropic effects; including the racetams and noopept. It may also partially be responsible for the antidepressant effect of SSRIs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.224.212 (talk) 00:23, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

NUMB

BDNF can mediate chemotactic cell migration through Numb - since this likely plays an important role in neurogenesis it seemed worthwhile to add to BDNF's page and to link to Numb's page.

I chose to discuss the neurobiology behind BDNF because understanding the mechanisms of it's expression and what it mediates is important for understanding how it can produce activity-dependent changes in gene expession I added a sub-section about the involvement of BDNF in schizophrenia. This linkage was mentioned in another section of this page, but I think that it merits its own section, especially since I link to this page (BDNF) from the schizophrenia page I have made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jgalvin2015 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

BDNF Increase with Excercise

"Certain types of physical exercise have been shown to markedly (threefold) increase BDNF synthesis in the human brain, a phenomenon which is partly responsible for exercise-induced neurogenesis and improvements in cognitive function."

Exactly what types of physical exercise? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.26.102.118 (talk) 19:45, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Anxiety

OK, I removed this again and am opening a discussion on Talk about.

The disputed content is this:

Anxiety in the context of early life stress and specific polymorphisms (i.e. Val66Met) have also been associated with suppressed BDNF gene expression in multiple genetic and epigenetic studies of the BDNF promoter gene among animals and humans.

References

So - this is biomedical information and is subject to WP:MEDRS - the content is making strong and clear claims about what happens to people's bodies. The sources that have been introduced are all primary sources as we define them in MEDRS. The content as it stands needs secondary sources. I did a pubmed search for reviews on BDNF and anxiety - the results are here. I looked at these reviews and I do not find that they support the content - this specific should not go in as it stands. Happy to discuss. Jytdog (talk) 22:28, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your persistence in demanding secondary sources. In reference to the BDNF entry, here are two review articles that support the edits that I made:

Curr Opin Neurobiol. 2015 Oct 17;36:59-65. doi: 10.1016/j.conb.2015.10.001. [Epub ahead of print] Activity-dependent signaling: influence on plasticity in circuits controlling fear-related behavior. Hill JL1, Martinowich K2.

Bioessays. 2007 Feb;29(2):116-9. BDNF variant linked to anxiety-related behaviors. Hashimoto K1.

As a clinical neuroscientist, as you might agree after reading these which I can put in if you prefer, my position is that Wikipedia is currently misrepresenting the important role of BDNF in "stress-related disorders" which affect hippocampal development and functioning and which include both mood disorders (i.e. depression) AND anxiety disorders. For example, to think that SSRIs in the studies cited are strictly "anti-depressants" is wrong and not consistent with an entire body of literature. Wikipedia should be keeping up with the current state of knowledge while I agree not latching onto trends that are based on as yet unreplicated findings.Tanjalo (talk) 20:20, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for posting here. yes i am aware of those articles and very aware of the work with BDNF val/met and its relationship to propensity to develop some anxiety disorders and its relationship to the efficacy of extinction therapy in people with some anxiety disorders. If you read the specific proposed content above carefully, you will see that it goes far beyond what we know and makes strong causal claims about what happens to people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jytdog (talk • contribs) 20:25, 14 January 2016‎ (UTC)

I have now read carefully these articles and spoken to experts in the field who are tenured professors of neuroscience at major academic centers with no particular conflict of interest and who do work in genetics of stress-related disorders. I therefore must disagree with your last entry-- that the claims go "far beyond" what is known. There are fewer papers on the topic of anxiety. But there is no finding related to decreased BDNF and genetic /epigenetic underpinnings that is specific to depression and that cannot be applied to anxiety disorders, considering both are stress-related disorders. The factors that lead to one phenotypic expression of stress vs another are thought to be more complex, multisystemic and involving receptors in different brain regions. Given your experience as a Wikipedia editor I will defer to your judgment having made my case.

Hi - you are very welcome here but please know that claims of being an expert, or having discussions with experts, really are meaningless in Wikipedia. All that matters, is what the best sources say. I agree that the article as it stands makes too claims about depression that are also too strong, given the complex, multifactorial etiology. That has been on my to-do list but I just haven't gotten to it. Please feel free to improve that! Jytdog (talk) 17:46, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

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Val66Met

I would like to elaborate on the SNP rs6265 a little bit. In order to do this I must revise the small paragraph already on the subject. Thank you :) Cbyrd2011 (talk) 23:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Sure. Please use high quality secondary sources, and summarize them neutrally- please don't use primary sources, especially new ones. (see WP:MEDDEF for what "primary" and "secondary" mean) Jytdog (talk) 23:21, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Errors?

Hi User:Cbyrd2011. What is inaccurate about the current content at Brain-derived_neurotrophic_factor#Val66Met, in your view? Jytdog (talk) 00:49, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Is there a reason you are seeking me out for an edit war? I deliberately left your unprofessional edit and asked for help in the matter because you are obviously not one to mess with. So the question really is: why did you delete all of my contribution, without following training guidelines? What was inaccurate about my content, in your view? By the way, "Horrible ref. names" and the mention of how val/ val and met/ met are obviously not the same are not efficient enough reasons to delete my whole post, I would argue many will agree with me if you had followed guidelines and mentioned what and why you were going to change things, as I did. Cbyrd2011 (talk) 00:57, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I would really prefer you put back my content, and then we can discuss errors.

First of all, please read WP:BRD; what is happening is entirely normal. With regard to discussion here on the talk page, please read and follow WP:FOC.

Here is your edit; much of it is still there. I did remove the following:

In Val/Val homozygotes, the most abundant BDNF transcripts in hippocampal neurons (exons 1, 2, 4, & 6) can be found throughout the cell. For example, knockout studies have shown that exon 1 and 4 are essential for dendrites close to the soma while exons 2 and 6 shape distal dendrites. In Val/Met heterozygotes, however, all 4 transcripts can be found in the cell body, producing small, fat neurons with relatively no protrusions. This indicates that BDNF mRNA is not being transported to the dendrites for transcription, and is thus transcribed in the soma, producing an enlarged cell body with few protrusions. The few dendrites formed are drastically underdeveloped. As expected, Met/Met homozygotes are also affected with similar findings to heterozygotes.

As noted in my edit note, this is unsourced. I withdraw the objection that it doesn't make sense - it does. So - it is here on the talk page, per WP:PRESERVE. You can restore it but you need to provide a reliable source per WP:BURDEN.

Please identify any problems with the current content. You said here that there are errors in it. Jytdog (talk) 01:43, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Ah, you got that from the Frontiers ref. Added back a shortened version of that here. I am really glad you introduced this subject matter -- it was needed! Jytdog (talk) 05:32, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

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