Talk:Borat Subsequent Moviefilm

Requested move 27 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural speedy close An editor 17jiangz1 made a request at WP:RM/TR almost the same time this move request was initiated. So I’ll close this request since it’s going to be meaningless to undo my move then this article gets moved again after this RM elapses. If any editor has objection please let me know on my talk page. Thank you (non-admin closure) Megan☺️ ^{Talk to the monster} 14:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

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Borat: Gift of Pornographic Monkey to Vice Premiere Mikhael Pence to Make Benefit Recently Diminished Nation of Kazakhstan → Borat 2 – per WP:COMMONNAME. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 12:46, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moved back per https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AHoracio_Vara&type=revision&diff=980634007&oldid=980633735 Please ignore my mistake: I confused who did the move and who requested it. Nonetheless, discussion is warranted. If you want to move it, have a discussion. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:38, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 1 October 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Borat Subsequent Moviefilm → Borat 2 – Common name, stylistic consistency with Borat, brevity. No reason was given for the reversion of move. 17jiangz1 (talk)

– I have closed this request procedurally and then reopened it, since the original page name has been changed. Editors please feel free to cast a new !vote with appropriate reasoning. The original !votes, rationales and responses are collapsed below so they won't conflict with !votes cast after this time and date. I have erased the nom's timestamp so the bot will recognize my timestamp as the new beginning of this request. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 21:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Note: the nom, 17jiangz1, has the option to withdraw this request, to change the proposed new name or to leave this request as it is. If a change is preferred, then please just ask me on my talk page. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 22:49, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Previous !votes and rationales

Borat: Gift of Pornographic Monkey to Vice Premiere Mikhael Pence to Make Benefit Recently Diminished Nation of Kazakhstan → Borat 2 Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. - Station1 (talk) 06:51, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Update (response to ping below): I'm neutral with regard to "Borat Subsequent Moviefilm". I'm not convinced it's yet established as the COMMONNAME or is even certainly the official name, but is definitely better than the very long and apparently incorrect name. Station1 (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Support, long title is part of the joke, so a joke title. Hyperbolick (talk) 06:56, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Support per the above. El Millo (talk) 07:31, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Keep at Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, colon or no colon. El Millo (talk) 17:43, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Do not support A reason was given, please do not misrepresent. No one has shown that this is the common name. Also, "it's a joke name" is an invalid reason: a movie can have any name, including a joke for a name. Move to Moviefilm suggested below ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:16, 30 September 2020 (UTC) A quick Google search will show that most reliable sources refer to the film as "Borat 2"-17jiangz1 (talk) 10:23, 30 September 2020 (UTC) 17jiangz1, I don't use Google and you haven't actually provided any of these sources. IMDb doesn't list it as "Borat 2" but its current title. Instead of farming out your responsibility to me, can you actually provide these sources that you claim exist? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:20, 30 September 2020 (UTC) "I don't use Google" is possibly the most laughable thing I've ever seen as an argument. – Dyolf87 (talk) 20:42, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Dyolf87, If you continue hounding me, I will raise your behavior to WP:AN. Stop it. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:44, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Oppose a move to Borat 2 (edit 2020-10-01: but support a move to Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, which apparently is the real title). A quick look at Google News shows that while some sources refer to a "Borat 2", others refer to a "Borat sequel", so the sources have not converged on Borat 2 as a common name for this film. Short of the 256-byte title length restriction, brevity also doesn't seem to be a compelling reason: we have an article Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask) (film) instead of some shortened title. Similarly, many articles retain a film's subtitle even though it obviously increases the length and is not used as part of the common name; e.g., we have Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (2007 film) (the common name is Sweeney Todd) and Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (the common name is Master and Commander). Einsof (talk) 14:20, 30 September 2020 (UTC) In both examples, the longer name is used to disambiguate as a WP:NATURALDIS (from the titular character in the first case, and a novel in the second.--17jiangz1 (talk) 17:46, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Then the current title of this article functions as a WP:NATURALDIS for a previous Borat film. Einsof (talk) 18:01, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Disambiguating from what? No one is intending to move this page to the title "Borat", and "Borat 2" already more-than-sufficently disambiguates the film while conforming to WP:CONSISTENT. There is no other work that is associated with the title "Borat 2".--17jiangz1 (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2020 (UTC) I said quite clearly what other film this article's title serves to disambiguate. The current article title corresponds (as far as I know) to the film's actual title rather than some random title that does not seem to have anything near universal adoption in the relevant sources. If WP:CONSISTENT is so important, then the article currently at Borat should be moved to the film's full title rather than making up a name for the sequel. Einsof (talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Support per above. It is a WP:COMMONNAME and also WP:CONSISTENT with the first film Borat which officially has a very long title too. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) Move to Borat Subsequent Moviefilm or Borat: Subsequent Moviefilm per recent coverage. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 14:48, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Support, seeing how Borat the first has a similar official name, but is referred to simply as "Borat". Keep the article name short. DaveTheBrave (talk) 15:28, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Support, there's no reason for an overly-long title when pretty much everyone who wants to access the article will search for Borat 2 anyway. Whoever moved it from Borat 2 is simply showboating. – Dyolf87 (talk) 15:37, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Dyolf87, Please don't assume bad faith or spread lies on talk pages. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:21, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Support per Dyolf87 (minus their last sentence, per Koavf). The long form is too cumbersome for it to be the common name for typical use. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Support per Erik's stated reasoning Flynn58 (talk) 00:20, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Flynn58, new information has come up, and I revised my stance. See the newer comments. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 15:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Oppose ish, not an active wikipedia user so just throwing the info out there, it seems the latest marketing for the film has the title as "Borat: Subsequent Moviefilm," so might that be the most appropriate title? Harrisonisdead (talk) 03:27, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Support change of title, but Oppose moving to "Borat 2". The first teaser trailer reveals that the official title is actually Borat: Subsequent Moviefilm. I think the film should be moved to that, as it is the official title, and is not overly long.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 03:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Per WP:COMMONNAME, the official title does not take precedence. Even after release of the teaser, sources still refer to it as "Borat 2" as a short form of the name "Borat: Subsequent Moviefilm". Moving to "Borat: Subsequent Moviefilm" will have to see sources use it as the common name.--17jiangz1 (talk) 05:54, 1 October 2020 (UTC) The name of the film is Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, see Variety.--Filmgirlfannn (talk) 15:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Supportper WP:CONCISE. Borat 2 is enough to know what the article is about., especially considering that reliable sources call it that.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 06:20, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Strike above per Cassandra872. No preference as to the colon.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 18:48, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Move to Borat Subsequent Moviefilm per confirmation of new title. (@Station1:, @Hyperbolick:, @Facu-el Millo:, @Koavf:, @17jiangz1:, @Emailuser:, @Dyolf87:, @Einsof:, @DaveTheBrave:, @Dyolf87:, @BarrelProof:, @Harrisonisdead:, and @Bait30:) Cassandra872 (talk) 10:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Oppose move to Borat 2, it should be moved to Borat Subsequent Moviefilm as suggested above, as that is the actual title. It is not titled Borat 2 even if some people call it that. See Variety. The full title is Borat Subsequent Moviefilm: Delivery of Prodigious Bribe to American Regime for Make Benefit Once Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan but if that's too long it should be called Borat Subsequent Moviefilm.--Filmgirlfannn (talk) 15:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Oppose: The titled of the movie is "Borat: Subsequent Moviefilm" with the semicolon and the article should be moved to that. --Babar Suhail (talk) 15:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Comment: I made a technical request to move to Borat Subsequent Moviefilm because the current article title's subtitle is now obviously incorrect. Whether or not we append the correct subtitle and/or use a colon can be discussed here to finalize the move. But we should at least get away from the faulty title. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 15:24, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Agreed, we don't need a week to fix an obvious error. I have moved it to Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, which is probably correct. It may or may not need a colon; you can hash that out here at your leisure. In the meantime, the article isn't sitting at an obviously incorrect title. --Bongwarrior (talk) 17:32, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Thank you. Editors can revise their stance as to whether or not the actual subtitle should be included, and if we should be using the colon anywhere. (If we are using it after Borat, and we are appending the subtitle, then a dash should be used after Subsequent Moviefilm.) Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 19:05, 1 October 2020 (UTC) References

• Oppose, the article should be titled the real name of the film. It is not very long (so no need for brevity), and is not, as far as I can tell, named Borat 2 (although a redirect takes care of that title search). Randy Kryn (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. Consistency with the first film isn't to name it Borat 2, but to use the shortened title without the purposefuly overlong subtitle. Borat Subsequent Moviefilm: Delivery of Prodigious Bribe to American Regime for Make Benefit Once Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan is this overlong title, Borat Subsequent Moviefilm being the shortened version equivalent to calling the first one simply Borat. Regarding brevity, three words is short enough, and this current title is more WP:PRECISE. El Millo (talk) 23:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose real title is proper and more precise and redirects are in line with Wikipedia (see Rocky 6) Patelgybed688 (talk) 23:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
• Withdraw in light of new name.--17jiangz1 (talk) 03:08, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Producers and sources

@TropicAces: It seems like sources contradict one another. Amazon's page for this film states (sorry, some nasty formatting): "Producers Sacha Baron Cohen , Monica Levinson , Anthony Hines , Dan Swimer , Nina Pedrad ,

Peter Baynham , Erica Rivinoja , Dan Mazer , Jena Friedman , Lee Kern" but The Hollywood Reporter states: "The film is produced by Cohen, Monica Levinson and Hines. Buddy Enright, Nicholas Hatton, Baynham, Mazer and Stuart Miller exec produce". Seems like the actual distributor of the film would know best who is producing it. Am I missing something? What is the best source to figure out who is the producer of the film other than the film itself? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:01, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Generally positive reception

The film objectively received generally positive reviews from critics; 82% on Rotten Tomatoes and 67 on Metacritic indicate just as much. I also just added 4 review rounds to back this up. One IP user is determined to use the BBC’s roundup to act as the end-all, but thats clearly the outlier here. I’m open for discussion but this seems cut-and-dry to me. TropicAces (talk) 20:13, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

We have sources that say "mixed" and "generally positive" so it's fair to say that the film has received "mixed to positive reviews". The text I most recently inserted which just says that the BBC considers critical consensus as "mixed" is completely appropriate. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:42, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

what’s a second source that said mixed? Because neither of the review aggregators indicate positive, every non-BBC roundup I could find are generally positive. TropicAces (talk) 23:26, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

TropicAces, Just added Reuters. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

TropicAces, And let me acknowledge and thank you for working with me on this. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok, i like the way it’s worded there in the Critical response. I’ll tweak up top to make it less contradictory too. Cheers! TropicAces (talk) 00:50, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Adding a 'Marketing' Section

Amazon is doing some interesting marketing things for the movie, like parading a boat with a giant Borat around the harbor in Toronto, Canada and the Thames in London, England. I think it's interesting enough for its own section, but I don't know how to go about doing that properly. Any advice? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alphavano (talk • contribs)

The stunts are already mentioned in the Release section. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:06, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I did not see that. I only wish I could say the same about the float itself. Alphavano (talk) 14:48, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Alphavano, To be clear, I also broke it out as a subheading based on your recommendation: it was a good idea. You should feel empowered to make these kinds of edits yourself, too. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:33, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm still getting into the swing of editing things so I appreciate the confirmation. Alphavano (talk) 20:46, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

References

Confusing sentence

"The character of Borat has been controversial in Kazakhstan, with the original film being censored for a period and Baron Cohen's website blocked in the country. In the lead-up to the film, public opinion Kazakhstanis took to Twitter with the hashtag #CancelBora" -- anyone know what a "public opinion Kazakhstani" is? 86.144.157.195 (talk) 19:37, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

You have to assume anything and everything associated with this film is fake, and outrage on Twitter is often fake. This sounds fake too, and it seems to be another publicity stunt: "The makers of the Borat sequel wanted to bait officials in Kazakhstan into a tetchy reaction for some free publicity."[1]. I leave it up to Wikipedia editors to find better sources and fix the article as needed.

See also WP:CONTROVERSY. -- 109.76.200.104 (talk) 20:08, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Profit

https://wikimapia.org/Gypsy village

43°15'45"N 76°51'31"E --Tuong lu kim (talk) 12:10, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Languages

Why is only English listed in the infobox, when at least two other languages are used throughout the movie? Why does the Borat article list the various languages in that film but this one does not? Is there some Wikipedia rule about this that I'm not aware of? Otherwise it strikes me as an arbitrary decision. Moncrief (talk) 06:08, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Moncrief, Template:Infobox film instructions. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:19, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

cast list includes photographs?

When did photos of people count as cast? Obama and Kim Jong Un were not in the movie Jawz101 (talk) 07:46, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Is Johnny the Monkey part of the cast?

Does Wikipedia include animals as part of the cast? Right now, the "cast" section reads that Johnny the Monkey plays a "fictionalized version" of himself. Besides the fact that we don't know if the monkey's real name is Johnny, is it within precedent to give animals credits? --Andymii (talk) 19:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Andymii, e.g. Dunston Checks In. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:29, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

koavf I see. In that case, however, can we confirm that the monkey's real name is Jonny? I can't find confirmation of that anywhere. --Andymii (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually, just saw how you edited it; I like it that way. Thanks. --Andymii (talk) 19:36, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Andymii, Yes, thank you for encouraging me to have a higher-quality and more reality-based article. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:36, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Related AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tutar Sagdiyev ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:22, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

External links

The External links section is a mess. There are way too many links in there that should not be. Please read WP:EL if you are not already familiar with the guidelines. At the time of writing there are 12 links in that section and more than half of them look like they should be removed or reused in the article as inline references.

I was going to try tag the section with a warning but couldn't find the right template {{Citation style}} didn't seem quite right.

Please read WP:EL, the External links section of this article badly needs cleanup. -- 109.76.130.230 (talk) 05:50, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

I moved them to another section. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 19:20, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a good start. I do hope editors more familiar with the film can still find ways make use some of those sources in the article body as WP:EL recommends. -- 109.76.130.230 (talk) 21:48, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

To add to article

Basic information to add to this article: how much money this film made. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 06:08, 28 March 2023 (UTC)