Talk:Bonville–Courtenay feud/GA3

GA Review

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Reviewer: Shearonink (talk · contribs) 17:31, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I am giving this article a Review for possible GA status. Shearonink (talk) 17:31, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   @Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: Please see "Response from government" section below.Shearonink (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

   There are only a few more issues that I have found - please see 'Odds & ends' section below. Once these are responded to, I think I'll be able to finish up this GA Review. Shearonink (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

   All the prose issues have been dealt-with, adjusted. 1A is now good to go. Shearonink (talk) 17:47, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   Everything looks fine. Shearonink (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

   Please see "maintenance template" section below. Shearonink (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

   Ran the copyvio tool - absolutely no commonality was found with other sources. Shearonink (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

   Dispassionately deals with all the aspects of the feud, doesn't favor one side or the other. Shearonink (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

   Hurrah for no edit-wars! (Very stable.) Shearonink (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   All the images have the proper permissions - yay! Shearonink (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   Succinct and to the point. Shearonink (talk) 17:42, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   @Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: There are just a few more issues I have found on my most recent readthrough which can be found in the Odds & ends section below. I am going to do one more proofing/readthrough (and pending any adjustments/discussions), I think I should be able to finish up this GA Review within the next day or two. Shearonink (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

   This article is now a GA. Congrats to the nominator/editor User:Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi. Shearonink (talk) 17:47, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Maintenance template

@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi:There is a "clarification needed" template in the article - The earl subsequently sent a sortie led by Thomas Carrew. The issue it raises must be corrected before I can do any further work on this Review. Shearonink (talk) 05:56, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

•  Done -in fact it was placed 'mistakenly' :) 18:35, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Response from government section

@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi:Needs to be corrected:

• to assist York, who however did not set out until new's was received of the should be to assist York, who however did not set out until news was received of the

 Done

This sentence needs to be adjusted for more clarity:

• However decisive the earl of Devon's victory had been, it had also drawn the attention of the government, which was still under the control of Bonville's allies, York, Salisbury, and Warwick, but had up until that point failed to intervene in this local feud (as it had also failed to do at the beginning of the Percy–Neville feud in Yorkshire some years before).

 Done

I think I know what this sentence means but the meaning is a little unclear. The following sentence is also not as clear as it could be: When parliament reassembled on 12 November it was presented with (to some degree, exaggerated) reports that Devon was leading an army 4,000 strong, including 400 cavalry. I think this paragraph could do with some general copy-editing, with the number of commas and parentheses being somewhat confusing to the reader.Shearonink (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Think I've addressed the concern here Shearonink- move full stops, less commas! — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 15:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Much improved. Shearonink (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

National context

This paragraph makes some very specific assertions that seem unsupported by sources:

• The king, Henry VI, had been incapacitated by mental illness in August 1453. This led to the recall to court of the recalcitrant Richard, duke of York, his closest adult relative and a potential claimant to the throne whilst Henry remained childless. York had been banished to his estates after a failed rebellion in 1452. The following year, with the king still comatose, York was appointed Lord Protector and First Councillor of the realm, for the duration of the king's illness.

A couple of things:

1. Are these all supported by Ref #5

   No, now individually sourced. — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 15:57, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

2. Was the king actually comatose, was he "deeply and medically unconscious for a prolonged period"? Shearonink (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

   Well; we don't know, is the short answer! Medieval chroniclers were not so helpful as to leave us proper diagnoses conforming to WP:MEDRS; but, as an example, of how historians have interpreted his illness: 'mental illness', 'severe mental collapse, accompanied by crippling physical disablement, 'the king lost his mind', or 'catatonic schizophrenia... left the king utterly helpless... he had to be fed and supported by two men.' Etc! — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 15:57, 18 March 2017 (UTC) .

I think it needs to be made clear that this was a period characterization of the king's then-condition and not the current understanding of the medical term. For instance, someone who is comatose couldn't be made to walk even between two men, etc. - someone who is in a coma, or is comatose, is unconscious. Shearonink (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

The murder of Nicholas Radford

he had enfeoffed

• What is enfeoffed? Is there a definition that you could link to or maybe a Note you could add? I think a lot of readers might not know what it means.

 Done

Devon subsequently despatched a force.

• Should this perhaps be dispatched?Shearonink (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Of course  :) — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 16:01, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Aftermath

I am a little confused by this phrase:

• Devon's heir, the killer of Radford,

I was wondering why this person isn't named in this sentence. Shearonink (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Indeed; I've tightened that Shearonink. Cheers! — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 16:06, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I think the sense of who the article is referring to is now much clearer but I have some concerns about the present sentence structure. Please see "Odds & ends" section. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

References

@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi:

• All of the oxforddnb.com refs are subscription-required and need to be marked as such.
• Ref #7 is a bare URL and needs to be filled-out with a 'cite web' reference.

Shearonink (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Odds & ends

Misspelling:

• Courtney's heir should be Courtenay's heir

Phrasing - I think there are presently too many attendant phrases/too many commas. I'm not sure what the best way would be to correct it.

• [Courtenay's] heir and namesake, the new earl of Devon, who had killed Radford, was a thorough supporter of the Lancastrian regime

could possibly be adjusted to something along the lines of

• Courtenay's heir and namesake was [condition], [condition], [condition]. so

• Thomas Courtenay's heir and namesake, Radford's killer, was a thorough supporter of the Lancastrian regime. or maybe

• The new earl of Devon, who had killed Redford, was a thorough supporter of the Lancastrian regime.

Shearonink (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that Shearonink- I think I've dealt with those points- or incorporated your sentence re. the killer of Radford, etc, and went for the slightly vaguer- less loaded term- but still accurate 'incapacitated' instead of attempting a detailed description of Henry's illness (which in any case, it's prob more suited to his article than this?). Thanks a lot! — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 09:47, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

@Shearonink:- I've just seen you do the ODNB tags- very sorry about that- I added the first one and (bizarrely, perhaps) thought the rest of them were automatically added! oops! Thanks for catching those though. — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 13:39, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: Glad to do it - a Reviewer is allowed to do a few minor edits (can't be a "major contributor") so I thought it would just be easier for me to lend a hand on this. Oh, the access-date is also missing from that one cite, if you would add it that'd be awesome. I need to do one more deep-readthrough to see if there's anything I've missed, but barring finding any new issues, I should be able to finish this review up within a day or two. Shearonink (talk) 13:47, 20 March 2017 (UTC)