Talk:Bloody Mary (South Park)

Alcoholism

About that short note in the 'Trivia' section that keeps getting removed and re-inserted ... there's the following dialog in the episode:

Stan: "My dad was here yesterday and you kinda messed him up by telling him he had a disease."

Dude 1: "Alcoholism is a disease."

Stan: "No, it's ... it's not. And you can't just go around saying stuff like that to people like my dad. He's ... he's kinda a hypochondriac."

Dude 2: "It is a disease because it is a physical dependency. That makes it a disease."

Stan: "No, cancer is a disease. My dad needs to drink less."

I know the point is Randy being pushed into thinking he's an alcoholic just because of his one drunk driving episode and the dudes there are overreacting. Still, I gotta stick with the AA dudes on this. Alcoholism *is* a disease, it's classified as such not only in the major psychiatric catalogues (such as DSM) but also in the ICD-10 - which, to me and every other person in the medical field, makes it a disease.

There is a legitimate range of controversy about this in the literature: I don't know if you are ignoring it or what, but it's by no means a settled subject. In any case, this debate is not really relevant to the article as far as I can see. I am interested that there is so much on Catholic objection to this episode despite the fact that it was a lot more of an attack on AA than Catholicism (it was gross and blasphemous with an icon, but never actually really attacked Catholic belief in the same way it attacks AA). Plunge 03:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

So, if the reason this tidbit is not accepted in the article is because it's irrelevant, then that's fine with me. Otherwise, I feel it should be in there because it's verifiable and with a citation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blinkenpilzen (talk • contribs) 05:26, 9 May 2006.

Also to note Stan's dad goes back to his drinking ways though many studies have shown that the majority of alcoholics cannot return to drinking in moderation, see the article on alcoholism.

There seems to be no consensus on the Disease Theory of Alcoholism.--Robbstrd 01:13, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

62.25.106.209 16:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)Just to refute the notion that entry into the DSM makes alcoholism a disease (you may wish to note the DSM has in the past also listed homosexuality as a disease). This is a nonsense. Alcoholism is a behaviour and has been labelled a disease as a result of intense lobbying by the para-professionals of the 12-step community. Drinking is an expression of choice and is voluntary. All diseases are involuntary and can be shown to exist by scientific objective testing. Alcoholism does not meet this criteria. Great episode though!

Ok, but the POINT is that you can't use a disease as an excuse to feel powerless, and especially not as an excuse to keep doing something you know you shouldn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 01:16, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

While perhaps not provable enough to mention in the article, I believe there is a relation between the "Catholic objection" to this episode and its AA content. Califano, the "practicing Catholic," also runs and is founder of CASA (The National Center for Addiction and Drug Abuse, casacolumbia.org) which promotes AA and other 12-step programs (a remarkably high percentage of those working in the alcoholism and addiction fields are members of AA and/or other 12-step programs, and use their work to promote 12-step programs to the exclusion of any and all other methods while "being anonymous," that is, not disclosing their own 12-step membership.) Califano could have just as easily stated the episode is bad for leading alcohlics away from AA (and thus, by AA members' thinking, leading them to a miserable life and death from "their disease"), but perhaps he felt public sympathy would be stronger for the position that "this episode so denigrates Catholicism it must be suppressed."Benbradley (talk) 05:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Find a cite and you can add it to the article, else it stays here.Alastairward (talk) 14:36, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Alcoholism is considered a disease. It's not "voluntary," just ask anyone who has it. See the Wikipedia article on Alcoholism. 98.198.83.12 (talk) 02:36, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 05:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed another link [1] which while not youtube, appears to be showing parts of the episode in violation of copyright. If I made a mistake and the site has permission to show these segments, you're welcome to re-add it but please mention here the evidence that the site has permission Nil Einne 14:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

deletion

I think that this article, since it is highly controversial and offensive, that this article should not be here. PLEASE consider it. This article has no place in an encyclopedia that hopes to be half ways decent. Thank you DevoutCatholic 03:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry man, not only is that never going to happen with the rules in place on this site, but I have to disagree with you on the idea to begin with. I too consider myself a devout Catholic, and the whole idea of this episode makes my blood boil, but Wikipedia is here to document such things, no matter how distasteful or downright disgusting they may be. -- Grandpafootsoldier 07:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Why would the article be deleted because its controversial? Just because it hurts your feelings it should be removed? That is like me saying the article on sex should be removed because kids might see it. 72.93.158.106 19:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to make it look like that we're all ganging up on you, DevoutCatholic, but please see WP:NOT#CENSOR - Wikipedia is not censored under fear that it is controversial or offensive, so I'm afraid you will have to live with it. ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 10:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Your just being ignorant and fascist. The episode has a positive message in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.242.176 (talk) 11:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

While I wouldn't call them fascist, I'd suggest looking up the definition of the word encyclopedia. The episode indeed has an extremely positive message and I don't think it is too blasphemous, the point was to ridicule the so called "miracles" related to statues crying/bleeding (which has been ridiculed in a lot of different shows) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.250.42.43 (talk) 02:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Trivia and goofs

I have removed trivia and goofs. They are all unsourced. I have also removed the cleanup tag. Capitalistroadster 06:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Good, I hope to have the same done to all other South Park episodes. Take a look at my User Page and you'll see I'm cutting down some Trivia - but I'd rather be able to remove it all, or merge it. ≈ The Haunted Angel 11:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see it integrated where possible. Thedarxide 12:48, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Haunted Angel, I'm trying to scrub this stuff out too. From the current revision (minus one);

• This episode marks another occasion in which Stan is shown to be able to drive. Another example of this is Towelie.
• When asked if he knew anything about the Twelve step program, Stan responds by saying "Yeah, and I also know a thing or two about cults; I was the leader of one for a while." This is a reference to when he became the leader of Scientology in the episode Trapped in the Closet. Similarly, this episode was also controversial in its approach to religion, and ultimately was the cause of Isaac Hayes leaving the show.
• For a second, while Randy says "They say her divine ass blood has miraculous healing powers. She can cure my alcoholism!" while Stan is trying to convince his father to not drive, a visitor alien can be seen through the rear window.
• One of the members of the band "Sanctified" from Christian Rock Hard is seen handcuffed in the police station after Randy is arrested. In addition, one of the men the boys catch at the meth lab in the episode Lil' Crime Stoppers is sitting on the bench with them.
• In the scene before Randy ask Stan to drive a alien can be seen in the car window

This is referenced on IMDB: here —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwn3d (talk • contribs) 00:24, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Some of this seems to be mere continuity within the show, but in any case, cite or it stays here. Alastairward (talk) 13:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Visitor

There is a visitor behind Stan's dad, when he is sitting in the car and explaining to Stan about the virgin Mary. I think this should mentioned in the article.. perhaps put the trivia section back up? I'm not doing it myself, bacause a) I don't know how to add a new section, as I don't normally edit stuff here, and b) my English is somewhat poor, as I am foreign.

WP:WELCOME is useful to the first problem, if you don' know how to add a new section. However, I added this a while ago, but then the problem of Trivia arises - Trivia, including stuff like this is somewhat irrevelvant and unencyclopedic - as interesting as either you or I may find it. See WP:TRIVIA for more info. ≈ The Haunted Angel 10:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Visitors are already mentioned in the list of fictional South Park species, there's supposedly one in every episode.Alastairward (talk) 13:51, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I was surprised to see a visitor in the episode and even more surprised after reading the latter comment. There's a visitor in every chapter?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.132.95 (talk) 11:32, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Hypochondriacal behavior?

Why'd he get into a wheelchair and shave his head? I assumed it was a parody of some movie, but was it more like Howie Mandel and Britney Spears who suddenly developed severe germophobia and shaved their heads? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 04:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Really?

The article is now linked to "20th Century Persecutions of the Catholic Church"? I'm not a Catholic, but I can understand how a devout Catholic might be offended, but "persecution"? If that's the case, then "Trapped in the Closet" was an example of persecution of Scientologists, and "Butt Out" was persecution of non-smokers. Maybe I'm being overly technical, but shouldn't there be some agreed-upon definition of persecution--like something that causes palpable harm to people based on their identity? In any event, I just don't see how a cartoon episode rises to the level of job discrimination or tar and feathering people.--mcglotda 21:18, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. Other things under the topic include massacres and laws. This doesn't belong, and I'm editing the article to reflect that. Zelmerszoetrop (talk) 00:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

It is related to the issue of Anti-Catholicism, in a cultural way, so I did add it to that category. Also I'm looking for things against Anti-Catholicism to make the category more balanced and clearer.--T. Anthony (talk) 07:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Erroneus Info

I have removed the section in the opening of the article that states: "In the audio commentary Trey Parker states he somewhat regretted making this episode more than 'Trapped in the Closet' due to the excessive controversy surrounding it". I listend to the audio commentary three times after reading this and, at no point, does Parker make such a statement. Parker does talk about how Comedy Central convinced Parker and Stone to let them pull the episode and how they regretted not kicking up a stink because it then led to Scientologists saying "Well if the Catholics can get an episode pulled, why can't we?" and this all took place at the same point they were telling Issac Hayes that they wouldn't pull 'Trapped in the Closet' because it sets a precedent for anyone else to complain who is even mildly offended by something on this show. They also talk, very briefly, about how this became the basis for the 'Cartoon Wars Parts 1 and 2' and how the issue of censorship also surrounded those episodes. But at no point do either Parker or Stone state they regretted making the episode at all. Please don't return this to the article until you can find a truthful source. 78.144.245.38 (talk) 11:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

just making an edit known here on the discussion page before someone gets their panties in a bunch

"Feast of the Immaculate Collection" should be "Feast of the Immaculate Conception", obvious in the very article it links to. I'm making this edit, and nobody should have a problem with that. It's a self-explanatory edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.26.80.68 (talk) 02:23, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

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