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Talk:Blind Man's Zoo/GA1

< Talk:Blind Man's Zoo
Latest comment: 3 years ago by Kyle Peake in topic GA Review

GA Review edit

Latest comment: 3 years ago119 comments3 people in discussion
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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 05:40, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose ( ) 1b. MoS ( ) 2a. ref layout ( ) 2b. cites WP:RS ( ) 2c. no WP:OR ( ) 2d. no WP:CV ( )
3a. broadness ( ) 3b. focus ( ) 4. neutral ( ) 5. stable ( ) 6a. free or tagged images ( ) 6b. pics relevant ( )
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked   are unassessed

On first glance, this article looks alright and does have a number of unsourced claims but they are not sentences plus they are not any citation failed tags, so this does not get quick failed for sure! --K. Peake 05:40, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Infobox and lead edit

  • Recording date is unsourced
    • George Ho You should 100% not be doing this anywhere in the article since that could lead to a failure under the criteria; either remove the info, add citation(s) or change it by using other citations. --K. Peake 20:20, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Eliminated recording dates and replaced unsourced genre with one from Allmusic. --George Ho (talk) 21:42, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • George Ho No, you do not use the AllMusic sidebar as a source; also, the release date is in prose so does not need a ref in the infobox. --K. Peake 10:56, 3 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Eliminated "genre" parameter if AllMusic sidebar from the webpage can't be used. --George Ho (talk) 00:53, 4 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Studio should use the separate parameter in the infobox
  • Remove the venue parameter as that is for live recordings
  • Separate the genres by using bullet points, plus they are unsourced
  • Changed to simple bullet format. --George Ho (talk) 21:42, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • See one of my above comments made at the same time as this. George Ho (talk) 00:53, 4 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Are you sure the release months of the second two singles are unknown?
    • Will find reliable sources verifying the months of the release dates soon. George Ho (talk) 19:43, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "Blind Man's Zoo, which was released in 1989, is the fourth studio album to be recorded by the American pop group 10,000 Maniacs." → "Blind Man's Zoo is the fourth studio album by American alternative rock band 10,000 Maniacs. It was released on May 16, 1989, through Elektra Records." with the appropriate wikilinks
  • "current events that occurred during and before the production of the album." → "current events, which occurred during and before the production."
  • ""Trouble Me", the first track from the album to be released as a single, was" → "The track "Trouble Me" was"
  • "as dedication to the lead singer Natalie Merchant's father;" → "as a dedication to the father of the band's lead singer Natalie Merchant."
  • Start new para after this with ""Trouble Me" was released as the lead single from Blind Man's Zoo in May 1989, charting in..." then adding the two countries mentioned
  • Remove "and became a minor hit" since the description given with the two countries is enough
  • ""Eat for Two", a song about teenage pregnancy, also" → ""Eat for Two" and "You Happy Puppet" were released as the second and third singles, respectively..." with mention of the release dates if you can find them and chart performance of the songs; maybe name countries?
    • I don't think "You Happy Puppet" charted, even when released, unless I overlooked. I wrote another sentence about "Trouble Me" after the suggested sentence.
  • "The album had a mixed reception," → "The album received mixed to positive reviews from music critics," with the appropriate target since this is more accurate and add what was praised/criticized in this sentence
    • I made some brief highlights about the album, but I've not yet inserted such words as "issues" or "current events of that time". --George Ho (talk) 19:43, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "and reached No. 13 in the Billboard Top 200 chart and No. 18 in the UK Albums Chart. → "It reached number 13 on the US Billboard 200 and number 18 on the UK Albums Chart." with the target

Production and songs edit

  • Retitle to Themes and lyrics
  • The first two paragraphs of this should be in a different section titled Background and development, which will come before the retitled one in this order
  • "Members of the band 10,000 Maniacs were, at the time of the album's release, singer-songwriter" → "At the time of Blind Man's Zoo being released, the members of 10,000 Maniacs were; American singer-songwriter"
  •   Done without the proposed semicolon, which to me would break up clauses. --George Ho (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • [1] should only be invoked at the end of the paragraph since it backs up every single sentence of this one
  • "Christian Burial Music; followed by an LP titled The Wishing Chair after signing contract" → "Christian Burial Music. The releases were followed by 10,000 Maniac's second studio album The Wishing Chair, after they signed a contract"
  • "In My Tribe, released in July 1987, became modestly successful," → "In My Tribe was released in July 1987 and became modestly successful,"
  • "was recorded in" → "was recorded at"
  • "The ballad "Trouble Me" (track four), the album's first track to be released as a single, was co-written" → "The ballad "Trouble Me", which is the fourth track, was written" with the target since the single info is irrelevant for this area; I will tell you where to place it instead though
  • George Ho Even though you have since changed part of this sentence, some of the prose I requested for it like not putting (track four) are yet to be fixed; I have noticed at other points in the article, so please make sure you are looking at everything properly. --K. Peake 20:27, 8 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "Dennis Drew and Natalie Merchant for Merchant's father," → "Drew and Merchant for the latter's father,"
  • "provided the background vocals" → "provides background vocals"
  • "Other songs on the album" → "Numerous songs on Blind Man's Zoo
  • "who is five-months pregnant." → "that is five-months pregnant."
  • I think "who" is more suitable to a person (who is referred using one of pronouns) than "that". George Ho (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "did not intend the song" → "did not intend for the song"
  • "Rob Buck played the guitar" → "Buck played the guitar"
  • "the song; Jerome Augustyniak, percussion." → "the song, while percussion was performed by Augustyniak."
  • Remove the singles sentence from here
  • "The second track, "Please Forgive Us"," → "The album's second track, "Please Forgive Us"," and this belongs in the above para instead
  • [4] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [7]
  • [1] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [2]
  • "The seventh track "Poison in the Well" concerns" → "The seventh track, "Poison in the Well", concerns"
  • [1] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [4]
  • "is about the working class." → "is about the working class, centering around the plight of them."
  • "The tenth track "Hateful Hate" concerns" → ""Hateful Hate", the tenth track of Blind Man's Zoo, concerns"
  • "and racial tensions" → "as well as racial tensions"
  • "The final track "Jubilee" is" → "The final track, "Jubilee", is"
  • [3] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [7]
  • "and concerns a racist" → "and is about a racist"
  • "a dance hall in which he had" → "a dance hall, in which he had"
  • The music videos para should not be in this section
  • "Music videos of "Eat for Two," "Trouble Me," "You Happy Puppet," "Dust Bowl,"" → "Music videos for "Eat for Two", "Trouble Me", "You Happy Puppet", "Dust Bowl"," with the wikilink
  • "were released in a" → "were included on the"
  • [8] should solely be at the end of the sentence
  • The ref doesn't mention the re-release. I'll find secondary sources to back up the re-release. George Ho (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Add ref(s) to back up the re-release info
  • If the primary source isn't sufficient enough, I'll try to find other sources then. --George Ho (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "bonus music videos from the band's" → "bonus videos from the band's 1993"
  • "in which the band" → "during which they"

Release and promotion edit

  • Create this section directly after Themes and lyrics, starting a sentence stating the release date of the album
  • Added release date, which is not exact. Using AllMusic's early 2000s book. --George Ho (talk) 00:51, 4 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • The singles info from the previous sections belongs here, as does the music videos info and add more if you can like the proper release dates
  • Still make the prose changes I suggested for the content proposed to be moved, though I may suggest further changes after you have created this section
  • After checking the DVD re-release's tracklist (via Amazon), I eliminated one unverifiable clause and rewrote the other clause as independent sentence. I can't be too sure whether an inline citation or a secondary source is needed when the live album MTV Unplugged is already used as a source. --George Ho (talk) 00:51, 4 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • George Ho No, you need to cite a source that states the track list of the live album. --K. Peake 20:24, 8 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Reception edit

  • Retitle to Critical reception
  • Refs in the ratings template should be invoked after the scores instead of the sources
  • Add "Blind Man's Zoo was met with mixed to positive reviews from music critics" as the opening sentence with the target
  • "said the track "Trouble Me" is "the most uplifting"" → "said "Trouble Me" is "the most uplifting track"" if that is what the source directly says; elsewise, put [track]
  • Turns out that Natalie Merchant called "Trouble Me" 'uplifting', so I moved her quote to "Themes and lyrics" section, splitting off from DeCurtis. --George Ho (talk) 01:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "called the album the band's" → "called the album 10,000 Maniac's"
  • "Spin journalist Jonathan Van Meter considered" → "Spin journalist, Jonathan Van Meter considered"
  • Added comma after "journalist" and "Meter". --George Ho (talk) 01:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "Rob Buck's guitar performance" → "Buck's guitar performance"
  • "also called the "Jubilee"" → "further called "Jubilee""
  • "Allmusic reviewer Chris Woodstra rated the album three-and-a-half stars out of five, considering it" → "AllMusic reviewer Chris Woodstra considered the album"
  • Remove wikilink on In My Tribe
  • "[the album] ultimately" → "[Blind Man's Zoo] ultimately"
  • For this review, don't have the star rating written out in prose and instead quote the review here
  • Found one or two quotes from the review. --George Ho (talk) 01:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Do the same for the following Rolling Stone review and the only Robert Christgau in this article
  • Found one quote from the RS review. The same couldn't be said for the latter, so removed it from prose. George Ho (talk) 01:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "Another Rolling Stone reviewer J.D. Considine rated it three out of five and wrote that" → "J.D. Considine, reviewing for the same publication, wrote that"
  • The certifications info belongs in Commercial performance instead
  • "was certified Gold (500,000 units) on July 11, 1989 and then Platinum (1,000,000 units)" → "was certified gold for selling 500,000 units in the US on July 11, 1989 and then platinum for sales of 1,000,000 units in the country"
  • [14] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [15] and should use a refname from the cert table
  • "it the band's fourth album to be certified Platinum." → "it 10,000 Maniac's fourth album to achieve the certification."

Chart performance edit

  • Retitle to Commercial performance
  • "In the United States, Blind Man's Zoo reached number 13 in the Billboard Top 200 chart" → "In the US, Blind Man's Zoo reached number 13 on the Billboard 200"
  • [16] is the correct ref but this should be using a refname from the chart table and place solely at the end of the sentence before [17]
  • Add the RIAA certification directly after this
  • "at number 18 in" → "at number 18 on"
  • [18] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [19]
  • Write about the BPI certification for the following sentence
  • Found the BPI website and the page verifying the certification. --George Ho (talk) 05:04, 8 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • "In the Billboard charts," → "On the US charts,"
  • "number 20 in the" → "number 20 at the"
  • Target should be solely on Mainstream Rock
  • "number three in the" → "number 3 on the" per MOS:NUM
  • Target should be solely on Modern Rock Tracks
  • "and number seven in the" → "and number 7 on the"
  • Target should be solely on Adult Contemporary
  • "reached number 77 in the" → "reached number 77 on the"
  • [18] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [24]
  • The last para should be part of the second instead
  • "reached number 12 in" → "reached number 12 on"
  • [18][21] should solely be at the end of the sentence before [25]

Track listing edit

  • This should be laid out with the template that is usually used for track listings, though still keep the sides separated
  • The writers note is pointless since more than five had multiple writers and when this is in the template, list the writer(s) for every song
  • A source is required for the credits

Personnel edit

  • A source is required here
  • Use the div col template for separation
  • Any specific order here?

Charts edit

  • Remove album header
  • See MOS:TABLECAPTION
  • This should be cited as a normal chart table with the chart history templates; this can be used for citing the US refname I referenced in this review
  • Remove the singles charts

Certifications edit

  • Cite as a normal certifications table; see Template:Certification Table Entry if you are unsure how to
  • See MOS:TABLECAPTION
  • Add the UK certification by BPI
  • The gold and platinum certifications are not both needed, only cite the platinum one here
  • The platinum certification here can be used for the refname I referenced earlier in the review

References edit

  • Make sure all of these are archived by using the tool
  • Copyvio score looks slick at 9.1%!
  • Some of these are missing publisher/website and accessdates; give these to any sources that can have them added, i.e not the likes of the cassette and CD ones
  • Target Timothy White to Timothy White (writer) on ref 2 and target Spin to Spin (magazine)
  • Target Elektra to Elektra Records on ref 5
  • Target People to People (magazine) on ref 7
  • Cite Thomas Gale as the author for ref 8 and remove him from publisher, placing his surname before forename for consistency
  • Allmusic → AllMusic on ref 9 with the wikilink
  • Wikilink Chicago Tribune on ref 10
  • Wikilink The New Rolling Stone Album Guide on ref 13
  • Target Billboard to Billboard (magazine) on ref 15
  • Solely cite Official Charts Company for ref 18 with the wikilink, as publisher
  • Ditto for refs 19, 24 and 25 but with no wikilinking
  • Ref 21's title appears to have not been filled in properly
  • David Roberts' name is ordered incorrectly on ref 26 and target Guinness World Records Limited to Guinness World Records

Final comments and verdict edit

  •   On hold even though the article is not too well crafted currently, I have confidence that you can fix these issues in a week and if I have not estimated properly then this may end up being failed. --K. Peake 13:00, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • ✗ Fail for this article now since not only has it been over a week and you have not fixed the large amount of issues in time, but I have made comments to you directly days ago that you have not responded to at all. --K. Peake 05:39, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
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