Talk:Black Coffee (All Saints song)/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Aoba47 (talk · contribs) 17:25, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

• @Marshmallow Honey: Grabbing this for a review as I have only recently heard of this girl group and I am interested in reading and learning more about them and their music. Aoba47 (talk) 17:25, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Lead and infobox

• Image in the infobox needs an alt.

Done. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 12:13, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• I would move the sentence about the song being released as the second single directly after the first sentence of the first paragraph.

Done. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 12:13, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• I would rephrase the last two sentences in the third paragraph to the following for clarity: (A bitter rift within the group complicated the single’s release and subsequent success. It was publicly visible during tense live performances of the song and the members avoided each other during the making of the music video, opting instead to film all of their scenes separately.)

With all due respect, the rift did not complicate the song's success. These particular sentences were copyedited by a copyeditor from WP:GOCE yesterday. I think they read better and more accurately the way they are now, but if you have an alternative suggestion, please inform me. Regards, Marshmallow Honey (talk) 12:13, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Background

• The part in parenthesis after Kirsty Betarelli is unnecessary and distracting so I would recommend deleting it.

With all respect i owe to you, it is actually necessary as it prevents confusion since she is credited as Kirsty Elizabeth for her writing of the song and she wasn't married to Ernesto when she met him or wrote the song; she was still known as Kirsty Roper (her maiden name) then. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 12:40, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• I would rephrase the first paragraph to the following to make the meaning clear immediately. A reader may be initially confused on why you are talking about these two people met as there is not an immediate connection to the song: (Swiss model and singer Kirsty Betarelli based “I Wouldn’t Wanna Be” on her first experiences and feelings for Swiss entrepreneur Ernest Betarelli. The pair had met at a dinner on his yacht off the coast of Sardinia in 1997.) Keep the links to the people and place.

Rephrased. Thanks. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 12:40, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• I would combine the two paragraphs into one as I do not see a real reason for separating them.

Merged. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 12:40, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• I would restructure the first sentence as it reads somewhat awkwardly and appears choppy. (The track was produced by Kirsty’s recording partner and BBC Radio 1 DJ Gary Davies, was passed it on to songwriter Tom Nichols. The song was originally intended to be a single for Kirsty.”) Be careful with commas as I have noticed a tendency to overuse them in this article.

Thank you kindly for your suggestion Aoba, but this specific section was rewritten by the copyeditor and the commas are gramatically correct. A comma is never put in front of the word "was" and without the commas between recording partner and BBC Radio 1 DJ, it would imply that Kirsty owns all of BBC Radio 1 DJs. Your suggestion also omits why the song was passed on to Tom Nichols. I think the sentence reads perfectly fine, but if you disagree or have an alternative suggestion, please inform me. Thanks again. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 12:40, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

New arrangement and recording

• Image needs an alt and should presented as “upright”

Hi Aoba. I have done this, but the image seems rather tiny now. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

@Marshmallow Honey: You do not have to use "upright" if it changes the image too much or makes it too small or hard to see on the actual page. This was more of a suggestion than anything. Aoba47 (talk) 19:48, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Restructure the first sentence in the first paragraph as it reads very awkwardly and I am not entirely sure what you mean by the time that had passed between Davies and Bennett. It may be helpful to split this sentence into two as it appears more like a run-on sentence than a fully realized thought or idea.

I've rewritten it. Please check. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Rephrase the second sentence of the first paragraph to the following: (Following the success of All Saint’s debut single “Pure Shores”, Bennett gave producer William Orbit the demo of “I Wouldn’t Wanna Be” and allowed him to rearrange it.) as your current phrasing is very awkward and unclear.

I've rephrased it differently. Please check. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Specify the meaning of “a long time”. If possible, cite an exact number as it currently sounds very vague.

Done. It was three years according to the book. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Use Nicole’s full name (first and last name) when you first mention her.

Okay. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Otherwise, very good section with great research!

Aoba, thank you so much! Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Composition and lyrical interpretation

• Very strong section here with great citations/research! I also really appreciate the audio sample included here.

Thank you so much. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:05, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Release and reception

• Clarify the Western Mail as “A review from the Western Mail” as a newspaper/publication should not presented as giving the review.

Changed to "A Western Mail critic". Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:06, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Music video

• Rephrase the following sentence (The members requested that they not be put in the same room as each other because they were not on speaking terms during this period) to a more direct form such as this (The members requested to be filmed in separate room as they were not on speaking terms with each other during the development of the video.)

With all due respect Aoba, your suggestion may be more direct but it is inaccurate. I have to stick to what the sources say and what actually happened. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Live performances

• Change “were being ignored” to “were ignored”

Done. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• I am a little confused by the quote from Betty Clarke. Can you better explain or integrate this quote into a sentence. Who are the girls pointing the Nicole? Why are they laughing? I am a little confused.

During that time Nicole was receiving a lot of bad press because of her high-profile relationships with Robbie Williams and Liam Gallagher of Oasis, this is irrelevant anyway so I've removed that bit of Clarke's quote. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Are there any reviews about the group’s performance of the song on the reunion tour? It would be helpful to expand the section, but I understanding if you cannot find anything.

I'm going to re-research this afternoon and see if I can find anything extra. Thanks. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 13:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

I've added some extra performances and some detail about what they wore at certain performances. But access to such info for a single released in 2000 is rather limited. I tried my best. Please check. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 18:00, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Legacy

• A lot of great research here; I have nothing to add here.
• The rest of the sections are very strong and I can’t find anything to improve.

References

• While not required for the GAN, I would strongly encourage you to archive all the links when applicable.

I've archived all links where possible. Some sources like Amazon, Daily Star don't allow archiving, while all the refs from HighBeam are already archived at HighBeam, likewise with the Pandora ref. Marshmallow Honey (talk) 18:02, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Final comments

• @Marshmallow Honey: This article is very close to being a GA. Once all of my comments are addressed, it should be passed relatively quickly and easily. Let me know if you have any questions or comments about my review. Aoba47 (talk) 21:31, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Greetings @Aoba47: I have addressed all your comments. Thanks again for the prompt review. I'm very grateful. Regards, Marshmallow Honey (talk) 18:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• @Marshmallow Honey: Thank you for your comments to my review. Again, I am not familiar with this song or group at all so I apologize for any mistakes I made in the comments dealing with that. Right now, the article looks great and this is a definite and easy ✓ Pass. Hopefully, I helped in some way. I apologize again for any confusion or mistakes on my part. ✓ Pass Aoba47 (talk) 19:38, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail: