Talk:Black. White.

Criticism

The structure of the show is being criticized for a number of reasons:

• Both families are supposed to be representative of their respective races. Whatever the white family says or does is supposed to be the "white" way and whatever the black family says or does is supposed to be the "black" way. Furthermore, whatever each family claims about their race is taken to be true of all members of that race. This model fails to take into account differences among individuals. Whatever one family (or an individual within the family) does or says varies significantly from family to family (and from person to person). And whatever claim they make about their race is nothing more than their own opinion and not true of all (or even a majority) of the population.

• Both families must live with each other and any conflict that arises between them is automatically assumed to be on racial grounds. As with the previous criticism, this model fails to take into account differences among individuals. Not all people between racial groups or within racial groups will be able to live successfully with one another. These conflicts are caused by simple differences in lifestyle that vary from individual to individual.

• The show fails to point out the effect of extraneous factors on human behavior, such as the fact that a camera crew will sometimes follow the families around as they "experience" being a member of the other race. Being filmed tends to cause people to act differently, and so it could be with the people they encounter. This makes any judgment of those people's level of racism (or lack thereof) difficult to ascertain.

• While the show doesn't claim to be scientific, they explicitly lack control experiments. As individuals "experience" being a member of the other race, they don't first go out being a member of their original race. So if a participant is treated well or bad as a member of another race, they have no basis for comparison of what they would have experienced as a member of their original race.

• The show is edited only to show contention between the races. While there are certainly time constraints on how much can be aired per episode, the viewer doesn't see the bulk of what actually happens. For example, in the first episode when Brian is a bartender we are shown a segment of a white man making a racist rant about how the neighborhood is nice and quiet because it is majority white. We are not shown any other interaction with customers for the many hours Brian is there. There could be many more moments of non-racist customers that represent the majority of the population.

This whole section is entirely POV. It must be NPOV to comply with Wikipedia policy. Without proper citation of an official source of the opinion, it cannot be used. Furthermore, the other two sections below this section (on the article page) are still questionable, even with their proper citation. Anyone who reads that section above wouldn't know if it was just some Wikipedian with a strong opinion on the matter or a writer for Time. Either way, Wikipepdia is not the place for POV. This topic is naturally subjective, but that does not excuse it from NPOV policy. --Wilhelm Screamer 07:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View/No Original Research/Verifiability

From WP:NPOV

"NPOV (Neutral Point Of View) is a fundamental Wikipedia principle which states that all articles must be written from a neutral point of view, representing views fairly and without bias... According to Wikipedia founder Jimbo Wales, NPOV is 'absolute and non-negotiable'."

From WP:NOR

"Original research is a term used on Wikipedia to refer to material added to articles by Wikipedia editors that has not been published already by a reputable source. In this context it means unpublished theories, data, statements, concepts, arguments, and ideas; or any new interpretation, analysis, or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts, or arguments that, in the words of Wikipedia's co-founder Jimbo Wales, would amount to a 'novel narrative or historical interpretation'."

"This policy in a nutshell: Articles may not contain any unpublished theories, data, statements, concepts, arguments, analyses, or ideas, or any novel synthesis (of published material) designed to advance a position."

From WP:V

"1. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources.

2. Editors adding new material to an article should cite a reputable source, or it may be removed by any editor.

3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it."

The pictures

I haven't seen the show but are those pictures of them with or without racial makeup?

• You're joking right? --Wilhelm Screamer 05:31, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

It says it right there on the caption...SuperWiki5 20:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

See Also Section

Anyone think it's innappropriate or irrelevant? I put in there hesitantly, I'm not sure if it's a stretch but I figured, what the hell- BE BOLD.Angrynight 05:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

• I don't see a problem with it, except that this show is crap and shouldn't be compared with those two things. But since they're somewhat related, it's appropriate to provide related links. --Wilhelm Screamer 05:46, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

actors?

how can it truly be a reality television show if it is portrayed by actors???? --Revolución hablar ver 06:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

They probably wanted someone with experience that could actually pass off as different people.

Unless someone can provide a reference for this show being scripted, please keep it out of the article. The fact that some of the cast members have had acting parts does not mean that the show is scripted or otherwise faked. Rhobite 03:00, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

FYI, the "Wurgels" are not a real family. The "father" of the family - his real name is Bruno Marcotulli. Rose is Rose Bloomfield. None of the people in that "white family" are related. It's very telling that Rose had almost no contact with Bruno or Carmen throughout the entire show, while Brian and Renee (the black family) were very involved with their son Nick. rock8591 12:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

"Scripted"

Is the show scripted? If it's not, then the article shouldn't say that it is. 75.2.221.50 11:08, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I would agree for the fact that much of the show is scripted/staged much like many other reality television shows. One thing many people don't think of is the cameras themselves being there. For example, woundn't any of the "regular" people on the show (teens from Roses poetry class/Teens from Nicks etiquette class) be somewhat curious as to why these people are carrying cameras around? Also there was the thing about Bruno and Rose's acting backgrounds. Are they even related?208.25.198.231 14:39, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Rose Bloomfield

If i'd ever met Rose, I'd write a good biography on her from to birth to the present, especially during her teen years when she was on "Black. White." and "Movie Surfers". Allthough I did deep searching on Google, there is perhaps not enough information about Rose Bloomfield. However, she was in high school plays, played the gutiar, and had many apperances. I wonder what happened?

Does Rose really want her privacy? ParamountCartoons93 (talk) 20:50, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

She always was on camera with her shirt off, I think not. 74.37.124.235 (talk) 00:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler alert on "The episodes."

Probably might be a good idea. 74.37.124.235 (talk) 00:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Rose Bloomfield's parentage

The sentence about Rose not being related to or having met Bruno or Carmen prior to the show seems to be not only original research but completely false, and none of the sources quoted say this. In fact, in looking her up on social media, I found a picture of Carmen and her from after the show in which Carmen labeled Rose her daughter. Does anyone have any evidence of this assertion or should it be deleted as non-substantied speculation? RadicalReverend (talk) 13:16, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I remember seeing on Rose's instagram page a photo with her and her real parents, I will try to find the pic Spookedemeyaster (talk) 02:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

That sentence is indeed untrue, as confirmed by Rose herself in comments to this Instagram post: https://www.instagram.com/p/BCFBVgCqukX

Rose's real mom is Carmen (from the show) while Bruno was indeed some sort of "step-dad". Ohmigott (talk) 08:42, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

The article claims it to be a fact that not only are the Wurgels not a real family, but that they had never met each other prior to shooting. This is a matter of opinion unbacked by evidence. It is true that all three had a background in television, but as others have pointed out on the talk Rose Bloomfield has addressed on her instagram that Carmen is her real mother. In a 2006 interview, fellow participant Brian Sparks doesn't seem surprised when the interviewer asked about the Wurgel family's background in acting and casting.

Interviewer: The credits say that Bruno's a school teacher, but In doing my own research on him, I discovered that his last name isn't Wurgel, but Marcotulli, and that he's an actor, and that Carmen is a Hollywood casting scout.

Sparks: That's interesting, because whereas we auditioned, they knew someone in casting, and that's how they got set up for their audition.

Interviewer: I have no idea, but you have to wonder whether Carmen might have known the casting director for the show.

Sparks: She did know the casting director, and that's how they got introduced to Black White.

Interviewer: And Bruno has been on TV shows like MacGyver, Murder She Wrote, Baywatch, JAG and several movies including Spy Hard, One Tough Bastard, Safety Patrol and Moon in Scorpio.

Sparks: Wow! I remember Safety Patrol, but I didn't know he was in all that. And Rose was on a show the Disney Channel. [1]https://aalbc.com/reviews/brian_sparks.htm

In addition to evidence on Bloomfield's social media, there are also pictures of Bloomfield on Carmen Wurgel's Facebook page captioned "Daughter, Rose, and I on a hike" [2]https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=4707278932622036&set=a.402776649738974 Nlk42 (talk) 18:25, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, what was in the article is clear original research or just fabrication (in the case of the unsourced claim that Rose had never met them). And it's non-neutral to say it's misleading to call them the Wurgels, or that they're "not a family in the strictest sense", whatever that means: Families with multiple surnames may be known by one parent's name, and there's no reason it needs to be the father's. I have reworded more neutrally and verifiably and removed the dispute tags as resolved. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 01:18, 14 May 2023 (UTC)