Talk:Birmingham ElectroAcoustic Sound Theatre

Disputing the prod

I've removed the prod tag. I should say I have no connection with BEAST - just an interest in acousmatic music and a 1976 physics degree from the Uni. Here's a summary of why I think the subject is notable.

• BEAST has been in existence for nearly 25 years and it is part of the EA Music Studios at the University of Birmingham, UK. (So despite its possibly rather dodgy name, it's not comparable to a bunch of kids with synths!)

  don't get me wrong, I think it's cool, but the primary notability criterion is clear. Age isn't a factor. My grandmother's house is over one hundred years old, but that doesn't mean it's notable. My grandfather's company is 60 years old, also not notable.

• It has been used for over 140 concerts in the UK and Europe, and still is – it will be "performing" in the CBSO Centre in May 2007: see City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra website concert listings. (I don't plan on adding this link to the article as it will probably be seen as advertising, and it is only ephemeral.)

  probably trivial (ephemeral) mentioning.

• It has appeared in many music festivals (as listed in the article).

  probably trivial mentioning?

• Many composers of electroacoustic music have had an involvement with it.

  association with notability does not mean notability.

• There have been at least three commercially-available CDs of music that was produced for BEAST.[1]

  non-independant sources, also association with notability does not notability make. McKay 14:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

By its nature, BEAST does not attract much press attention: that tends to be directed to the works performed through it and the composers that write them. This is why most of the 290-odd ghits just mention it in passing. User:Sustaltikos found one good article (thanks for your contributions, please make more!), and I'm browsing to find further useful refs. The website for the Computer Music Journal shows 32 matches, but unfortunately it's a subscription-only journal (not even abstracts!) so I can't check them, or use them as refs. Can someone who has access - or paper copies - check it, please?

I hope that explains sufficiently. It seems to satisfy many of the notability criteria in WP:MUSIC. If User:Mckaysalisbury is satisfied, perhaps he'd remove the notability tag he added to the article on 23 April, or otherwise comment here. Smalljim 09:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:MUSIC has no criteria for items of this sort. Could you explain what you mean?

Really, the primary notability criterion is the best guide. All of the links I've seen are either trivial mentionings, or are non-independant. The Computer Music Journal would be great, if someone could verify that the mentionings of BEAST (at least 2 of them) in it are non-trivial. You might be able to find copies of that Journal at the library. I'm tempted to put the prod back, because notability has not been established, but I will note that CSD A7 doesn't apply. I leave the prod off to give you some time to find the sources. I will note that in the articles current state, I would have to vote against it in an AFD. McKay 14:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

FYI, while works by Jonty Harrison are good sources for the article, none of them satisfy the primary notability criterion, because they are not independant of the subject in question, as he is the director of BEAST. McKay 15:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

K, I removed the NN tag, because I think that the references recently added are sufficient. I have noticed that my definition of "trivial" is different than most of the editors here at Wikipedia, so I can't guarantee that others will feel the same way I do, but the Dack and Tutschku references are enough for me. Good job with the article. McKay 15:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, and a couple of questions

Thanks for all your input to the article, Sustaltikos - especially the paper references, which it would have taken me ages to track down. I'm glad to hear that Mckaysalisbury is now happy that it is notable. I've made a few changes today which I think improve it further.

Q1. I note that you've used the acronym BEAST in two senses, both as the hardware (speakers and diffusion desk) and as the team of people who run it. I had always thought of it purely as a "sound theatre", i.e. a place in which sound is performed. To allay any confusion over this, would it be correct to use "BEAST" for the team and "The BEAST" for the hardware?

Q2. I wonder if an article on "Sound diffusion" would be useful? I'm aware that this article necessarily uses it in the lead para, but there's no explanation of what it actually means. Smalljim 14:33, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

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