Talk:Birmingham/Archive 15

Split for two articles for Birmingham? City and Birmingham?

I think from reading up on some more on Birmingham. I have always wondered. Why is there no second article to cover the entire city of Birmingham and only this to cover Birmingham itself? Birmingham has a lot of notable areas like Small Heath, Perry Barr, Erdington, Sutton Coldfield, Handsworth, Kings Heath, Bournville, Moseley and Quinton. These areas are of significant interest but don't get much mention in this article. I propose a split for both articles one that covers Birmingham (itself) and one for the wider (City of Birmingham). A similar thing exists for cities like City of Bradford, City of Leeds, City of Wakefield, City of Salford, City of Preston and City of Carlisle. I think a separate article for the wider city would be referenced enough and given Sutton was in Warwickshire and separate until 1974 and has a town and parish council. I think it constitute a separate article for both the city and Birmingham. I also proposed one for Wolverhampton and the wider city. DragonofBatley (talk) 16:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose How would you separate the definition of 'Birmingham' from the 'City of Birmingham'? Most of the places you quote have been included in Birmingham for over a century. The other examoles you quote have substantial rural areas outside the urban core, so they aren't really comparable. G-13114 (talk) 19:49, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose I agree with G-13114. These places are all in Birmingham, and Birmingham is literally defined as the city of Birmingham (this doesn’t make as much sense as it does in my head but the current defined city limits are very close to what I, and most people, would consider Birmingham). If you wanted to talk about the wider area, that would be under the West Midlands article. There are also places at least partially in other counties (parts of Rubery and Walker's Heath in Worcestershire, possibly Cofton Hackett and Hollywood too) and others in Staffordshire that are often considered a part of Birmingham. Areas that would be considered the ‘wider area’ would, however, mainly be within the metropolitan boroughs of Sandwell and Solihull, which have their own articles. The solution is to add more information about Birmingham’s neighbourhoods (that’s what those places are, neighbourhoods rather than individual non-urban villages) into the main article by either adding or expanding a ‘Neighbourhoods’ section like there are with several other cities (usually under the ‘Geography’ main section). We could potentially do this for the West Midlands article too. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk) 15:27, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Not Sutton Coldfield...that was Warwickshire until 1974 and was only then made a part of Birmingham plus it has its own parish and town council. It might still be part of Birmingham but it was its own parish originally prior to Birmingham and has nearly 100k people living in the town and goes by royal town so I think that helps it in good stead DragonofBatley (talk) 19:53, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. I agree with the others; this would be a pointless exercise that would actively mislead readers. Your Sutton Coldfield argument makes no sense; it's directly equivalent to claiming that "Westminster isn't a part of London" because it was once a separate entity and formally has city status in its own right. ‑ Iridescent 16:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose - I don't agree with splits where the local authority for the city contains very little rural land, so I'm opposed. But splitting this is more like Dudley/Metropolitan Borough of Dudley or Croydon/London Borough of Croydon, which are much more urban, than the examples DragonOfBatley gave which have substantial rural land in the local authority boundaries. Eopsid (talk) 13:06, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
• It passes some but not all of the tests at WP:UKDISTRICTS, see User:Crouch, Swale/District split. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:55, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
• Leaning support but agree a split could be problematic, the BUASD and unparished area would be used for this article. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:57, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Commonwealth Games

The 2022 Games finished nearly a month ago so that section needs to be changed to the past tense and have details of venues updated. Mr Larrington (talk) 22:50, 4 September 2022 (UTC)