Talk:Bindi Irwin/Archive 1

Redirect to father's article?

Stop deleting the article! I'm writing her biography, or at least a page describing who she is instead of redirecting to Steve. --Yancyfry jr 03:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• Offspring of notable people are not automatically notable, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suri Cruise, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sean Federline, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scout Willis, etc. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 03:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

If it is true that, as the article says, she is as famous as her father, she deserves an article. Also, the Steve Irwin article says that she was working on her own TV show at the time of his death, which sounds very notable to me. Pvodenski 14:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

To say that she's as famous as her father is to stretch it a bit, but I consider her famous enough to have her own page. She's had that much exposure in the programs, not only as a cute little kid but actually taking part of the show. And her own show has just been cleared to continue and will air world wide in january-07. Hdw 13:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Count me as one who thinks she isn't worthy of an article. If she goes on and fronts a TV show, then create the article then. At the moment, she's just the child of a famous person. Delete the article, I say. Rocksong 05:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

She has appeared in TV programs. [1] Who are you to decide who is famous and who is not? Gdavidp 16:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Are you serious?! That's exactly what we do here: decide who is and is not notable (or famous). We are guided by certain policies and guidelines such as WP:BIO, WP:V, WP:RS and, probably most important of all, WP:BLP, but at the end of day editors have to decide whether or not a person is notable enough to qualify for an article. Appearing in TV programs does not mean a person automatically passes the test.

At the moment, I think it's best to leave things as they are with the material merged into Steve Irwin and this article redirected to that page. The alternative is we take it to WP:AFD and the article gets deleted.

Gdavidp, I strongly encourage you to review the policies and guidelines, especially if you are going to edit biographies. Thanks, Sarah Ewart (Talk) 18:57, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You must be joking! She is very famous in Australia. A child star. Now even more so after the death of her father who was a living national treasure. I have added her movie role and hosting of a new television show. She was born into television. Croclover 07:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I wish to formally request that this matter be decided by arbitration. This page is getting a lot of attention. People clearly want to read about the subject Bindi Sue Irwin and not be redirected. Croclover 07:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted the duplicated article Bindi Irwin and moved Bindi Sue Irwin to that space. --

Who are you? You haven't even signed. Anonymous Vandal! I am requesting administrator assistance to prevent any further deletions from by these ignorant pests. Croclover 23:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

That was me, I forgot to sign. -- I@n 00:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Um, you realise that the people deleting the article are administrators? --james^(talk) 00:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm a new wikipedian and unfamiliar with how such things are done. Thankyou for the advice. He has reposted his unfounded allegations above your posting. Is that enough evidence? It will also be recorded in the logs I suppose. The Bindi Show is definitely going ahead. Her manager John Stainton has affirmed this. That makes her notable.

• “Bindi's new TV show is going to premiere next January throughout America and the world...."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,20351375-5005961,00.html Need further proof? Sunday's Courier Mail spells it out for you.

• Mantle passes to Bindi

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,20377536-952,00.html She is the next Crocodile Hunter. I believe this blows negative arguments out of the water. Comparing her to babies like Suri Cruise who can't even talk yet are simply "childish". Croclover 23:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

To be completely honest, I doubt he has enough evidence... checkuser is not something done lightly, as it means exposing a users personal information, such as IP, even if it is just to a Checkuser, who either tells us that it's the same guy or not, but the Privacy agreement precludes letting the actual IP's out into the public. As for your links, please review WP:NOT, specifically the section on Not a Crystal Ball. When her show airs, she might then be notable, but we can not take into account future events now, as it would be a violation of policy. -M^ask 23:49, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou for the rapid responses. Wikipedia is certainly a large place to navigate. I had no idea your rule book was so well organised. I will come back after reading the links you have provided. Is it alright if I delete these libel messages from yale_s? They contribute nothing to the topic and I find them insulting. The links to the Courier Mail and other sources seemed perfectly ok to me. Ofcourse I'll remove them if they breach any rules. I posted the links in response to statements that Bindi Irwin was not assured of having her own show. It is not crystal ball gazing as it has been officially stated her show is going to air. She is already famous from countless television shows anyway. Croclover 00:52, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• P.S - Could an administrator please redirect the following page to the Bindi Irwin page as it is still being redirected to Steve Irwin. It is currently locked so I can't do it myself. Thankyou.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bindi_Sue_Irwin&redirect=no Croclover 00:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Please stop replacing official external links with namejacked redirects. Check where your links go and who is owning the site before listing as official. Hdw 16:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Can someone explain how links to her official pages can be regarded as spam? Hdw 16:38, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

What is the difference between Bindi and Terri Irwin. Both would be unknown without Steve, but there is no debate over deleting Terri's article. It is simply because bindi is a child. Shaizakopf 07:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

LINKSPAMMER active on this page

Hdw wrote: " Please stop replacing official external links with namejacked redirects. Check where your links go and who is owning the site before listing as official."

CrocLover /Wayne Smith / Universe daily / 203.56.233.122 / etc, etc does not need to check the links. The redirect spam/neo-nazi/porn sites belong to him. He knows wher they go and is linkspamming deliberately. The Admins need to block the IDs and IPs, as all of Wayne Smith's sockpuppets are indefinitely exiled from WP.

See post #92 here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive56#Shutting_down_Universe_Daily_for_good. Yale s 17:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

it isn't hard to run a whois on a site. If the 'official' site you're linking is registered by j.random loser or a protected account it's not an official site. In this case you would expect official sites to be registered to Austrailia Zoo, Animal Planet or Discovery Channel. Hdw 00:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Hdw, I am not sure who you are talking to. If you are talking to "Croclover", than you don't seem to understand that he KNOWS its not the "official" site. HE IS THE LINKSPAMMER. If you are talking to me, then I already KNOW its not the "official" site. I am the one removing Wayne Smit's LINKSPAMs until the admins block his sockpuppet IDs and IPs. Yale s 01:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I was talking to all people who add external links. I'm fully aware that we have morons who waste their time being vandals, but we also have people who think that a site like www.bindiirwin.com or www.bindisueirwin.com must be an official one, without checking the registry. Hdw 01:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

• This girl definitely needs her own article. She is the top story on today's Sydney Morning Herald. Would an administrator please reexmine her notoriety. It's absurd she doesn't have one already. --Jirrupin 00:42, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Speedy deletion

I have restored the history of the article and a redirect to Steve Irwin; feel free to create an article about her if you believe she is notable enough on her own. The previous deletion discussion resulted in deletion only because it was created by a banned user, thus not making any re-creation a candidate for speedy deletion. Please read the speedy deletion criteria. - Mike Rosoft 10:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Why not just start the article?

Googling her turns up a variety of articles about her specific to her pending television show, and also from before Steve's death. Wouldn't that count as making her notable enough for her own article? Just seems odd to wait for the premiere of her television show, as it's already set and slated to launch, since the amount of press will just naturally grow and grow each month as January approaches. · XP · 20:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Restablished as article.

I've gone ahead and done so, with extremely heavy sourcing. Notability has been established and will only grow each week we draw nearer to her own show and press coverage increases even further. WP: not a crystal ball is no longer applicable in any fashion here. · XP · 21:56, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I support the article existing as opposed to a redirect. I don't feel it is useful to add more about Bindi's career to her father's article, it is reasonably certian that in the short term it will continue and that she is now a notable person in her own right at present - no doubt because of who her father was but that does not negate the fact.--Golden Wattle ^talk 22:10, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, and this is fine per WP:BOLD. It'll just grow in time, and there's already far too much content of a notable nature here to merge/redir. · XP · 22:11, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:NOT says otherwise. Crystall Ballery untill the show goes on. I've left the talk page to discuss it, but made the article back into a redirect. -M^ask 00:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

• I have reverted the redirect - you should have discussed before redirecting. It no longer seems appropriate to discuss Bindi in relation to her father, there are events post his death for which she is at least as notable as many others included on Wikipedia - most have not been watched giving a speech by 300 million people or appeared on the front page of major newspapers - let the article stay for the present and see. Plenty of precedent for that approach.--Golden Wattle ^talk 00:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I should have discussed first? It was deemed a redirect by an AfD, in the absence of new information, of which there isnt any yet, it stays. -M^ask

The AfD you refer to occured before her memorial speech. -- Longhair 00:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, on that note, she made that speech why? Is it A.) she is notable? or B.) Her father, who was notable, died? In case you have any doubts, it's B. Untill her own Show airs, shes notable only because her father was. -M^ask 00:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Why not merge any extra information in this article to her fathers rather the a blind redirect? I don't care much either way whether or not this article stands, but I think you'll find it'll be re-created sooner rather than later. Perhaps it's time to open another discussion on this article's status. -- Longhair 01:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to merge, I support that, but I'm planning to just pull her article back to full status once her show airs,, which means cutting down her info under her father once that happens, so it seemed more logical to me to just leave as be there for the next couple months. -M^ask 01:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

You're the one blindy redirecting. You merge thanks. The article is fine as is but if you feel a merge is required, do so. I'm reverting back to the original until such time a merge or discussion has been undertaken. -- Longhair 01:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

There was a discussion. It was an AfD. It failed. The burden here is on the ones seeking to change that result. I can only rv back to the redirect I created once more, and you have a couple more, so I may have lost this one, but I think logic bears me out. -M^ask 01:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I have a couple more what? -- Longhair 01:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I have none left, just looked. So, in regards to the aforementioned logic, I would appreciate you returning to the state the article was in after the AfD and creating another discussion to see if there should be more here. It was the last result of consensus, and it seems natural to me that it should be left there untill another consensus comes along. I am not blindly reverting, im trying to make this in line with our own policy. I may be wrong, but the last time someone actually came to a consensus, it was to have a redirect. So I ask that it be returned to that while another consensus comes out. Care to accede to my request? -M^ask 01:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Again - the AfD you refer to occured before her memorial speech which had an estimated audience of over 300 million people. I'm leaving the article as it was before you arrived. If you want to re-open a discussion, look here at this very talk page, we're discussing it already. All of that aside, why redirect to her father, and not her mother? There's a point of view in itself. -- Longhair 01:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

(refactor) She gave that speech because her famous father had died, not because she herself was famous or notable for anything other then her father. Same with her mother. And I was here before the AfD. Perchance you'd like to read the archives? or maybe the AfD itself? You'll see my name in both of them. -M^ask 01:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Please also note the reason for the AfD decision to speedy delete was because the article was created by a banned user, no decision was made as to the notability or otherwise of the subject. The AfD result is thus irrelevant for its decision making as well of course for the timing - she has become more notable over the last fortnight - the reason as to why she became notable is not the point, the fact is she is currently more notable than many of the people who do have wikipedia entries.--Golden Wattle ^talk 01:49, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

My last edit summary deals with that, even without the G8 speedy, there was a valid merge and redirect consensus. -M^ask 01:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me, G5, im in kinda a huff, forgot my CSD's. -M^ask 01:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

If someone wishes this article to be recreated, the proper place is WP:DRV. There was a valid AfD consensus here. Respect the process. -M^ask 01:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

• There is no AfD concensus - the result of the AfD was "The result was speedy delete and redirect to Steve Irwin - created by sockpuppet of banned user Universe Daily per evidence." G5 no longer applies as the contributions to the articles have not been made by banned users. The 3RR riule is not outweighed by any of the arguents yo have put forward and your next edit will be in breach of it.--Golden Wattle ^talk 01:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Even without the speedy, there was a valid consensus for a redirect and merge. -M^ask 02:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

• AKMask blocked for violation of 3RR. Concensus not recorded the result of the AfD was speedy delete because the article was created by banned user. Since the AfD she has become more notable. No need for a DRV for G5 when other users involved. You can reopen it for AfD (when block expires) if you choose.--Golden Wattle ^talk 02:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

DRV

I've filed onto DRV here. This silly circle of revisioning needs to stop so this can stand as an article. · XP · 14:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a DRV is needed. The AFD did not run its course because it was discovered the article was created by a banned user. I don't think that deletion was with prejudice for a new article. If anyone thinks this should be deleted, they should AfD it, but I don't think a DRV is necessary. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 15:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I filed just procedurally, since everyone that RVs this back to a redirect cites that borked AfD. · XP · 15:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Page protection

I've also requested page protection in article form here with clearly stated policy reasons of why. · XP · 14:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations on the article

I have read through the article and it seems very well written and constructed. My congratulations and thanks to the writer! Romtobbi 09:53, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Article protected

I protected the article until you work out what needs to be done, because edit warring is lame. —this is messedrocker (talk) 11:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

What edit warring? Some edit warring occured yesterday, and the offender was blocked for 24 hours on a 3RR violation. Today's reverts were all cases of repairing vandalism. I've unprotected. -- Longhair\^talk 11:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

bindiirwin.com heads-up

It appears that blocked sockpuppeteer and listspam vandal user:Universe Daily has handed over the bindiirwin.com domain to the Irwins [2]. The name has now been removed from the meta blacklist. Neverthess, I do not support it being added to the article as it is still just a redirect - albeit a legitimate one now. -- I@n 03:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I feel the same I@n. Keep the domain out of the article for now unless it's being used for unique content related to Bindi herself. I've also blocked the ip that added the domain for a week as a reappeance of a previously blocked link-spamming vandal. Whilst their recent edit may have been in good faith, there's plenty of other issues they need to address at Wikipedia:Long term abuse/Universe Daily before we can consider them a trusted contributor. -- Longhair\^talk 03:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Controversy surrounding attention

Surely some mention should be made of the controversy surrounding the attention she's getting and the pressure she appears to be under to be like her father (I believe some child psychologists have suggested it might be damaging probably amongst other issues that have been raised)? I know this was talked about a bit in a paper here in NZ and I would assume it had even more discussion in Oz. Nil Einne 08:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree. --Philo 01:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah really, someone should add a section regarding this, unfortunately its the first thing I think of. Fennessy 22:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Jungle Girl misdirects

The link does not go to an article about the TV show, rather a "type of superhero or adventurer character that appears in popular fiction". I dunno what the proper article is (if one exists), so I haven't changed it.

It should be Jungle Girl (television show), I just added it/fixed it. · XP · 03:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

2007 Date for Show Start

This show is on hold for a year, which means the show is not premiering in January of 2007. Please expalin why the 2007 date belongs.--71.80.23.85 05:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I think if you check the history, the premiere date is probably a remnant of an earlier version and whoever updated it with the new information simply missed it.

There's no need for an attitude. We do out best. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 05:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

No someone actually restored it, Cause I removed it when I updated the info. --71.80.23.85 20:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It was probably someone doing quick RC patrol. They probably didn't realise it was a good edit. I'm sure it would have been a mistake and nothing to get upset over. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 00:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Bindi Name Origin

On one of the shows which showed Bindi's birth Terri made the comment to here new daughter along the lines of "How do you like being named after a dog and crocodile. Steve confirme this in an interview on his show later.--71.80.23.85 21:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

name spelling

I was watching a documentary on Animal Planet, in that program when they showed her name it was spelled "Bindi Sui" with an i insted of e.--Marhawkman 22:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparently the spelling in the TV show was an error. No other source spells the name that way.--Marhawkman 17:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

It might have originated with the fact the name "Sue" derived from Steve's dog's name, which was "Sui", but in episode 1 of Crocodile Hunter, Steve explains that Terri said "Sue - of course, after my dog Sui". youcantryreachingme 13:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

US/Aus. spelling

As far as I am aware, "Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country." see here Bindi is Australian by birth, yet her article uses American spelling. Any particular reason for this? Sarsaparilla39 03:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• The reason for this is that the article is most written by Americans, who as a majority, have no knowledge or consideration for any other spelling than their own. They mock you when you spell "colour" and they shout at you when you spell "aluminium" correctly. If you would like, you can begin going back and editing the spelling. Aang-kai 05:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

• An example of OZ/US usage differences just occured in the B. Irwin article.

The sentence:

"She said that creative writing was her favourite subject and maths, her least favourite subject."

was changed to:

"She said that creative writing was her favourite subject and math is, her least favorite subject.

In USese, "maths" is never used. I suspect that it was read as a typo and "corrected"

It was later reverted by an OZite. Yale s 17:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

"....yet her article uses American spelling. Any particular reason for this?" Getting angry over spelling is very petty...if you don't like the spellings change them, and it's really no big deal... Travis Cleveland 04:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)