Talk:Bernard Fellay

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The other two SSPX bishops have the same preamble clarifying their contested status up front. I added the same language here

TM Lutas

I edited the summary of the controversy about consecration, mainly to include a link to longer coverage. Also added the actual text from Cardinal Hoyos to preempt biased summaries. Text in this section is now identical in the articles for all 4 bishops. Gimmetrow 15:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Citations from the TRADITIO Network

-- Citing traditio.com as a source? Please do not post links to http://traditio.com as a citation. Traditio is a self-proclaimed rumor/satire site and is not an acceptable source per wikipedia guidelines. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.30.217.215 (talk) 15:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with the unsigned comment. The TRADITIO Network (www.traditio.com) the longest-standing information site on matters of Traditional Catholicism, having been founded in 1994 even before the Vatican's web site. The network is independent of any organization; thus, devotees of particular organizations often reject its directness when it does not agree with their personal viewpoint. However, the TRADITIO Network is cited internationally for information that is not published in the news sources of individual organizations. Wikipedia commonly quotes TMZ, which provides similar information on entertainment celebrities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ares0331 (talk • contribs) 20:00, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. Traditio is not a news or information site. It is a commentary site that provides speculation without citing sources. Who publishes the information? Each entry is anonymously signed by "The Fathers". It is often twisted, distorted, and rewritten "to form the basis of providing unique, lively, often bitingly satirical commentary" (direct quote from site). This is not suitable to be cited as a source in a bio of a living person, especially when the information given at the site can be proven incorrect by other sources. 75.42.201.70 (talk) 18:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

-- I concur with the view that Traditio should NOT be used as a source for this article. The information is not reliable or verifiable. 208.188.113.180 (talk) 08:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Weasel Words

Apparently, some editors don't understand that alleged is a weasel word, WP:WEASEL, and is specifically singled out as not to be used WP:ALLEGED. The fact is, this illicitly consecrated bishop incurred a sentence of excommunication because of the illicit consecration which is sourced in the article and said excommunication was lifted. There is nothing alleged about it or alleged about the Pope lifting the excommunication, unless one were to deny papal authority. I'm very sorry if you do not agree with the facts, if you are looking for alternative wording instead of alleged, please bring it to the talk page lest there be an edit-war.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 18:27, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Readers of this biograrphy do not need to be Catholic and may deny papal authority. The fact that there is doubt regarding if the excommunication ever occurred puts doubt into whether anything was ever removed to being with. The Pope saying that something is removed does not by itself remove it. The Pope saying that an "automatic" excommunication existing does not make one exist because it is active only if certain events (which are doubtful) ever occur. Saying that the excommunication was lifted does not do justice to the fact that there is doubt that it ever exist. Alleged is the only way to accurately describe the uncertainty in the situation Seminarian Matt (talk) 18:55, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I understand your concern. However, wiki is not concerned with truth, but with fact. If you have a source stating "this guy was excommunicated" and another saying "the excommunication was lifted" there are no allegations. This is an encyclopedia, not a blog, not a personal reflection. We are to remain neutral as editors and words like "alleged, supposed, " etc belie that. You're treading into the waters of NPOV and even Original Research with this one. Whether or not the reader is not Catholic has nothing to do with excommunication. If you want to include a separate sentence or paragraph about the validity or the SSPX's spin on events, that's fine, all points of view should be represented, but "alleged" is not the appropriate word to use in this context.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 19:01, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

On the contrary you are not neutral and have been seeking to paint all the SSPX bishops are evil men. You are the one forcing your views on a situation that should present the complexity of the situation to the readers. Instead, you refuse to do so. I assume that you are none other than a modernist.Seminarian Matt (talk) 19:06, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Please, refrain from making personal attacks, comment on content. I never said any of those men were evil, nor do I think that. Although one of them may be nuttier than squirrel shit, the rest are not. I am not forcing any view and I am no modernist. The fact is all 4 were excommunicated and are still suspended from performing the sacraments, even though the excommunication was lifted. This is not a soapbox for SSPX or anyone else. I write articles based on reliable sources not my personal views. Your argument about imposing views holds no water.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 19:13, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Note on the info box

In bringing the info box in line with what was already in the text, and what is quite obviously the case, my edit, simply titled "correction", was tagged as "possible vandalism". So, for safety's sake, here's the long version of the explanation. Abp Lefebvre ceded his post as Superior General somewhen in the 1980s to Fr Schmidberger; and it was Fr Schmidberger, hence, not Abp Lefebvre, who was the predecessor as Superior General. Moreover, even if we go colloquial and think that, well, even after that Abp Lefebre certainly remained the founder and "sort of the leader" of the SSPX in unofficial capacity (which wouldn't be the precise post of Superior General, though), still he died a couple of years before Auxbp Fellay was elected to the position he now occupies.--131.159.0.47 (talk) 15:53, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I see what the problem was. --131.159.0.47 (talk) 15:55, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

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