Talk:Benjamin Franklin Graves (soldier)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Eddie891 (talk · contribs) 22:59, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

I can take this on

Comments

First impressions:

• Why is this at '(Kentucky)'? That tells me nothing about who they were. Suggest 'Benjamin Franklin Graves (politician)' or 'Benjamin Franklin Graves (soldier)' or 'Benjamin Franklin Graves (military leader)'

"(Kentucky)" -> because there's another Benjamin Franklin Graves, Benjamin F. Graves (Michigan judge) which was the result of a December 2019 Page move that I did not institute. Shearonink (talk) 23:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

I'd recommend moving to one of my suggestions, though won't require it. That's likely to be an uncontroversial move, so you could go ahead and do it. As I see it knowing that he's from Kentucky doesn't help, but knowing what he did would be more useful.

Moved to Benjamin Franklin Graves (soldier). BD2412 T 04:43, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

BD2412 Thanks! Though I admit I about had a heart-attack when Legobot just now told me that my GA nom for this article had failed... Shearonink (talk) 05:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• Everything needs to be referenced with an inline citation

? I don't understand your above comment - there are inline citations from reliable sources. Do you have a specific objection to something in particular?Shearonink (talk) 23:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Graves was born in Spotsylvania County, Virginia in 1771. After the American Revolutionary War, he moved in 1791 to frontier Kentucky with his widowed mother and siblings, including his brother Thomas Coleman Graves. and This was in the central Bluegrass region, one of the first areas of the state to be settled by European Americans. and Nearly one thousand Kentucky troops were sent to Michigan Territory in a United States effort to take Fort Detroit, which was under the control of the British. On January 18, they defeated British and Native American forces at Frenchtown south of Detroit, despite relative inexperience on the battlefield. The British forces were led by Brigadier General Henry Proctor. and 2009, the area was established as River Raisin National Battlefield Park, the only one to commemorate a battle of the War of 1812. (Three national battlefield parks commemorate battles of the American Civil War.) all need cites.

Thank you for the specificity. "Born" - done. "Bluegrass region" - done. "January 18 defeat" - done. "Only War of 1812 National Battlefield Park" - done. All fixed. Shearonink (talk) 01:54, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• Memorials section may be better expressed in paragraph form.

Ok, I'll take a look at that. Shearonink (talk) 23:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Done. Shearonink (talk) 03:55, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891 Was there anything else that needs cleaning-up? Shearonink (talk) 20:11, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Shearonink, I'm planning on taking a look at it in a few hours once I have the time and energy to read prose again. I will likely have some more comments

Hope that's OK Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 20:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

That's fine, I'm just a little discombobulated these days...trying to stay busy. Or occupied or *something*. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 21:19, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Prose

• "to take the British-controlled fort at Detroit" could mention what the name of the fort was

Done.

• If it's cited in the text you can remove from the lede, ideally there would be no cites in the lede

OK.

• "Because so many men of the Kentucky elite " could you rephrase this somehow? Sorry that I'm not positive why but it reads odd to me.

Not done. Reads fine to me, because it is true and verifiable. Kentucky lost hundreds of its best and brightest, men who were very well-connected to the highest levels of the US Government.

• "In 2009, the Michigan area was commemorated as the River Raisin National Battlefield Park, the only such park to mark a War of 1812 site, although others are noted as national or state historic sites." what's the relevance to Graves here? I could see a mention in the article body, but it would make more sense to me to end the lede with perhaps saying that Graves County, Kentucky is named after him.

Because its the only War of 1812 National Battlefield Park? It's unique? But ok. Done.

• "Personal life and politics" perhaps "early life"

Not done. It's not just his early life, it's basically covering his life from when he was born up until the start of the War of 1812.

• Is there a link possible for 'state representative'

Yes. Done.

• "This was in the central Bluegrass region, one of the first areas of the state to be settled by European Americans." I don't see the exact relevance of the second half of this sentence, suggest removing

Not done. This lays out in a little more detail where the family moved to. I prefer to keep it.

• "Nearly one thousand Kentucky troops were sent to Michigan Territory in a United States effort to take Fort Detroit," could use date

Done. General date + reference.

• "despite relative inexperience on the battlefield." unclear what their inexperience is relative to; if there's information you might add about whether they had formal training (presumably not)

The overwhelming majority of the men were basically a frontier militia, all volunteer group with not a hell of a lot of military training so compared to the crack British troops and their Indian allies they were very inexperienced. I know this is so, I read it somewhere but can't find that fact atm so I give up. Deleted.

• ", south of Detroit," I've linked Frenchtown, it's up to you about whether to keep this or not.

It's fine. Not quite accurate though...the Frenchtown of 1812/13 was basically a small village of log cabins and huts not a charter township of many square miles but it does indeed locate the village someplace more specific than say, Michigan, so it's fine.

• "the British and Native Americans ambushed American troops and Graves was shot in the knee." I've rephrased to this, but am not entirely sure if I like it. Let me know what you think, feel free to rephrase again.

I've adjusted it a bit.

• "had to take took field"

Hm. Well, "took field command" has an air of "seizing field command"...I prefer "had to take"...they were next in line after Allen's death.

• you never cite that there were 1,000 troops

Done. See above.

• "Brigadier General Proctor moved his forces north in retreat, " rank is not needed after first mention. Why exactly was it a 'retreat' if they won?

Because the Americans were coming onto the field. Reinforcements were on their way.

• "The next day, on January 23, " only need one or the other, suggest going with 'On January 23,'

I disagree. The previous time that the specific date/day is mentioned in the text is 2 meaty paragraphs before.

• "Graves was reportedly seen near Detroit on the River Rouge." date?

Sorry no date available, it was a rumor and that it was a rumor and that Graves was never heard from again is referenced.

• ", he is presumed to have died during the march" by who?

By everybody? He disappeared from public record and even from rumors. I believe that is cited in the Ensign Baker statement and in the Albany Argus letter and elsewhere in the article but will take another look tomorrow to make sure.

• "Other Americans also died on the forced march to Fort Malden in Ontario." needs citing

Done.

• Check for other RANK LASTNAME occurrences, it's standard practice to only use the last name after the first mention

I think I caught them all but will check again tomorrow.

Done. I left a second mention of Winchester's rank in place for clarity to our reader-customers that 1)Winchester was in charge on the battlefield and 2)the two mentions are paragraphs apart. Shearonink (talk) 17:12, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• ""his widow kept a light burning at the window of their home"" could use attribution

? That statement is referenced.

• "only one to commemorate" the only what?

I thought that was clear from the quote in the reference but point taken, "it" has now been delineated as a National Battlefield Park.

• Have you considered adding an infobox? I know it's controversial, but I think it would be really helpful, particularly as there's no image of him

No, I have not.

• That's it for a first pass, on the whole very nice work. I've lightly copyedited. Feel free to discuss any/all comments/ce with me if you'd like, happy to clarify and expound on my points. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 00:00, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Ok, finished all of the above. Will check for RANK LASTNAME tomorrow. Shearonink (talk) 07:47, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

sourcing checks out, image is fine... Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:49, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

...Earwig's is fine... Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

... This article is not long, but it's well written, reasonably comprehensive, adequately illustrated, and otherwise meets the GA criteria. I'm happy to promote. I would again suggest adding an infobox, but it's only a suggestion. Regards, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:52, 2 June 2020 (UTC)