Talk:Ben Small (politician)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ben Small (politician)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Steelkamp (talk · contribs) 12:05, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

I saw this on Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Article alerts, and decided I should review this because I have similarly been improving articles on WA politicians recently. Steelkamp (talk) 12:05, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Comment. Given Small's notability derives solely from his position as a senator, I'm not sure that Criteria 3 can really be met with only two paragraphs on his term in office, one of which is simply a list of committee positions. Possibly this could be expanded with information about his political views, factional alignment, etc. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 13:42, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• I understand your concern and I do agree, but I would like to point out he's still a junior politician and hasn't been very "out there". He's stuck to the party line and hasn't had a lot of individual contributions to policy yet. I think Steelkamp's recommendations below will go a long way to fixing that. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Good article criteria

Criteria 1

Well written

• Lead needs to be larger. It should cover parts of his early life, education and career as well. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
  • At the moment, the lead still needs to be larger. There is so much more that can be added. Steelkamp (talk) 16:56, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

• Gave it another go. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 05:15, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

• The first two paragraphs of early life should be merged. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• Since 2009, Small volunteered as an ambulance driver and then as a volunteer development officer with St John Ambulance Australia. From 2005 until 2015, Ben was also a skipper, trainee officer and committee member of Bunbury Sea Rescue.[5] – swap these sentences around. The one that starts with an earlier year should go first. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• Since 2009, Small volunteered as an ambulance driver and then as a volunteer development officer with St John Ambulance Australia. The grammar of this sentence needs to be worked on. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• I think I've fixed it. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• Mention that Eaton is a suburb of Bunbury. Bunbury is far better known than Eaton. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Nevermind, I've done that. Steelkamp (talk) 16:56, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
• Division of Forrest should be linked at its first mention. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• You fixed that one already. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• I think MBA should be spelled out in full in the article's body. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• Finance minister Mathias Cormann announced his retirement from politics in July 2020 – the most relevant information is that Mathias Cormann was a member of the Australian Senate for Western Australia, as that was the position that Small was replacing Cormann as. Small wasn't becoming finance minister. Cormann being finance minister can be mentioned in a following sentence. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• I've split the sentence in question in two to mention why Cormann retired and clarify casual vacancies. Hopefully that makes the whole passage clearer. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

More to come.

• Ok, I'm satisfied that the article is written well enough for GA. If you ever choose to improve the article further, then there are some parts that could use further improvement. Steelkamp (talk) 14:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Criteria 2

Verifiable with no original research

• All references there are reliable. Formatting goes above and beyond the requirements for good article status. If you want to improve this even further, maybe for featured article, then add in news agencys (Australian Associated Press for several). Steelkamp (talk) 14:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

• I might look at taking it to FAR in about a year's time, so I will keep that in mind. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 03:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• As far as I can tell, the text in the article matches the references. Steelkamp (talk) 14:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Criteria 3

Broad in its coverage

• Birthplace is not mentioned in the body. Should be at the start of the early life section. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• this source says that Small joined the Liberal party in 2012. I think that should be added. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Agreed and done. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• The date of his first speech should be added. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• His political beliefs should be mentioned. Stuff such as his beliefs on gender quotas, support for nuclear power. Assuming you are a resident of Western Australia, you can sign up to the state library online and then look at past newspapers for free. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Partly done, I've added the content from the two sources you've suggested but there isn't much detail on these positions and it seems a bit clumsy to me. I've had a look through The West Australian and The Australian and there might be a little bit more to add though. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 05:37, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
• At this point I'll say it's done, I think any more and we'll be straying into the weeds a bit. Definetely will look to expand the content on his support for small business though. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 08:23, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• More on his selection process, including his fellow nominations for preselection. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
  • That source says that Small was viewed as a good candidate by those opposed to the increasing influence of fundamental Christian candidates. He was selected over Albert Jacob, who is a member of the Globalheart Church. Steelkamp (talk) 05:33, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done, but given that source was produced before the preselection vote I think it's too speculative in nature too give a lot of detail on Jacob's supporters/opponents. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 08:23, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

• His inclusion on the City of Perth's "Brand Perth" panel should be mentioned. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 05:15, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

• The reason for Cormann's resignation should be added. Steelkamp (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done (see comments above). 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:34, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

More to come.

• this source could be used to explain how Small got into Bunbury Sea Rescue. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• The article discusses more how he got into the marine industry than it does how he got into the Sea Rescue cause, and I doubt the relevancy of that anecdote to the article as a whole. However, that article has been useful for expanding on his role as a volunteer ambulance training officer and his political views. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 11:51, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

• His views and advocacy for small business should be added. Steelkamp (talk) 17:00, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• Partly done, more detail to come. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 05:37, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
• At this stage I'm going to say that's done. He hasn't made his views very clear beyond saying he supports small business and free enterprise, which is a Liberal Party policy. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 05:15, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

• The one thing I want you to do now is give a background on the religious discrimination bill (doesn't have to be long, even half a sentence summarising what it is). Steelkamp (talk) 14:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 03:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• As this is a short article, for anyone who questions this review in the future, here is the sources I checked to ensure the article is broad in coverage:
  • I checked the first several pages of google, and google news.
  • I checked every news story mentioning Ben Small on WAtoday, ABC News and The West Australian, using the search functions on those sites.
  • I checked past issues of The West Australian through online access with the State Library of Western Australia.
  • I checked his biography on the parliament website.
  • I read his first speech.
• Having checked all of those sources, I am satisfied the article is broad in coverage. There is only so much you can write about for a senator who has only been a senator for 1 year, and who is not high profile or controversial. Steelkamp (talk) 04:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Criteria 4

Neutral

Criteria 5

Stable

• No edits to the article in three months, nothing on the talk page – article is the epitome of stable. Steelkamp (talk) 12:28, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• It certainly helps that Small is not a high-profile politician, and Parliament is barely sitting until after the election. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 12:48, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Criteria 6

Illustrated, if possible

• I am worried about the copyright to the image on the page. Commons says the image was taken from a Youtube video with a creative commons licence. The Youtube channel is not an official Parliament channel, but the camera appears to be an official parliament camera. Under what authority can that Youtube channel claim that video is creative commons licenced? Can you find out whether Parliament has issued that video under a creative commons licence. Steelkamp (talk) 12:28, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

• I agree that that is a concern. I didn't add the photo personally so I am not familiar with its path from Parliament camera to the article. As best as I can tell, Parliament does not explicitly license their A/V media, and their website simply states "With the exception of the Commonwealth Coat of Arms and where otherwise noted, all material presented on this website is provided under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Australia licence." Although I get the impression it's covered by some sort of Creative Commons license, I can't be sure, so perhaps it's best to remove it until a replacement can be found (which doesn't look like an easy task). 5225_C (talk • contributions) 12:48, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

General comments

• I will finish this review tonight. Steelkamp (talk) 03:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
  • There is just one thing I want improved. I have written in underneath criteria three. Steelkamp (talk) 14:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

• All done by the looks of it. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 03:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• Passed. Steelkamp (talk) 04:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• Thank you for your thorough review and helpful comments. This has been my first GA review and I have greatly appreciated your patience with me. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by DanCherek (talk) 18:25, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Australian Senator Ben Small had been a ship's officer, bar owner, paramedic, ambulance trainer, and logistician before entering politics? Source: Farm Weekly article
  • Reviewed: Māngere Bridge, New Zealand

Created by 5225C (talk). Self-nominated at 04:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC).

• Article was promoted to GA recently enough and the hook is certainly interesting and cobbled together using multiple bits of the article that are cited inline (although I can't get past the paywall for most of them). No copyvio detected. QPQ done. I might also suggest reordering the diff jobs alphabetically, just for aesthetic purposes. Otherwise, this looks good to go! PS, there seems to be a wonky ref (biznews) at the moment but since it's an additional ref I think it's safe to remove it. Cheers, Kingoflettuce (talk) 05:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• Thank you! All the jobs should be in the Farm Weekly article which doesn't come up as paywalled for me, and the biznews ref has been fixed by AnomieBOT. If reordered, the hook would read:

... that Australian Senator Ben Small had been an ambulance trainer, bar owner, logistician, paramedic, and ship's officer before entering politics?

I prefer it as is because it's roughly chronological, but up to you. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 08:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Promoting ALT0 to Prep 3. DanCherek (talk) 18:25, 29 January 2022 (UTC)