Talk:Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1949)

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Requested move 19 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1949). Per consensus, move to alternate proposed title. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 13:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

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Ben Dunne (born 1949) → Ben Dunne Jr. – There are two Irish businessmen named Ben Dunne with Wikipedia articles, and they are father and son. The father founded Dunnes Stores, and the son later took over running the business from his father.

The father's article is currently named "Ben Dunne", and the son's article is currently named "Ben Dunne (born 1949)". The son is arguably the more well-known now, some 40 years after his father's death, and having remained in the public eye since then. As a result, it is possible that people looking for the son would inadvertently end up on the father's article, given it is just called "Ben Dunne".

I propose that the father's article be renamed to "Ben Dunne Sr." and the son's name be renamed to "Ben Dunne Jr." (currently redirects to this page), for consistency and clarity. I'm open to other approaches too, but I don't think the current approach is ideal. Gatepainter (talk) 10:59, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Neither father nor son used the generational suffixes "Sr." and "Jr." and such suffixes were nor part of their WP:COMMONNAMES. However, would support Ben Dunne (born 1949) → Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1949). If preferred by consensus, would also support the alternative form Ben Dunne (born 1949) → Ben Dunne (entrepreneur, born 1949). Would further support creation of a Ben Dunne disambiguation page listing the father as well as the son. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:24, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

  I agree with the suggested approaches, provided there is consistency between the father and son's articles, i.e. both should either use "businessman" "entrepreneur" or an appropriate reference to Dunnes Stores (e.g. founder/director).

  I also agree that a Ben Dunne disambiguation page is appropriate. Gatepainter (talk) 21:21, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1949), our standard way of disambiguating. We generally try to avoid "entrepreneur". It's a bit of a peacock term. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:51, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. The 'Sr.' and 'Jr.' were never used by them and aren't part of their names. It's usual practice to minimise disambiguation, so adding "entrepreneur" or "businessman" is unnecessary and redundant. Neither could really be described as entrepreneurs - they founded one business, each. I would agree with a dismbiguation page, as Ben Dunne (born 1949) is almost certainly the current primary topic, but otherwise, moving Ben Dunne to Ben Dunne (born 1908) would seem the most logical and consistent. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 14:44, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
  • No, it is not usual practice to only use YOB. We always add the occupation as well if we can. See WP:NCPDAB and the Charles Hawtrey example. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Looks like there is unanimity that the current names need to change, and a rough consensus so far for a Ben Dunne disambiguation page with links to the following renamed articles:

Ben Dunne→Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1908)

Ben Dunne (born 1949)→Ben Dunne (businessman, born 1949) Gatepainter (talk) 13:01, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It’s a godsend when people like him die 78.17.150.63 (talk) 20:45, 9 April 2024 (UTC)