Talk:Ben Amos/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:41, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll review this article shortly. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:41, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Here are the issues I found:

• I would just remove the first ref; I can't access it and it isn't really needed anyway.
  • Done, Added better ref.
• "Amos' team's goalkeeper was injured during the game, so Amos went in goal; however, he had also been the team's regular penalty taker all season, so when they were awarded a penalty, he went all the way up the pitch to take it." huh? I'm not a footy expert, so this sentence makes no sense to me. Reword.
  • It doesn't need rewording. Amos usually played as a centre-mid for that team, but when the goalkeeper was injured, Amos went in goal. They won a penalty during the game, and since Amos was the usual penalty taker, he went all the way up the pitch from his position in goal to take the kick. How does that not make sense?
    • I re-read it and I can get my head around it, but it's still a sentence full of jargon. Maybe say "came into the game" instead of "went in goal". Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear}
      • No, he was already "in the game", as he was playing in midfield until the starting goalkeeper got injured. – PeeJay 15:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
        • Ah, okay, that makes sense now. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:44, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
• "on 8 January 2005, for a league game against Manchester City." remove comma
  • The comma is necessary to break up the sentence, otherwise it's just a long stream of words. The first part of the sentence tells you WHEN he was first called up to the U18 squad, and the second part tells you who the game was against.
• "He was regularly named as an unused substitute during the 2005–06 season – including for two reserve team matches – but became a regular starter for the Under-18s in 2006–07 after signing a trainee contract in July 2006." cite needed
  • Done.
• "who had picked up a hand injury" reword; 'picked up' isn't really a good term for describing an injury.
  • It is in Britain, but I'll change it to 'suffered'.
• "Amos's blushes were saved" reword, feels a bit slangy.
  • Done.
• A lot of the sentences start with 'On [date],' Mix it up a bit.
  • Done.
• I'm sure you could find at least a little bit of personal life info to add to the article.
  • If it's there, it will be added, but I don't see any reason why the lack of a 'Personal life' section should be an impediment to GA status. After all, he is a footballer, not a celebrity, so the primary focus should be on his football career.
• The article feels a bit bare bones once the youth career is done; it basically just notes his debut for a team and being loaned back and forth. For a goalkeeper there's not going to be as much, I understand that, but certainly there's a bit more that can be added, such as any shutouts that were of particular note for Peterborough or the latest recall.
  • To be honest, since he 'graduated' to senior football, there's not been much to talk about. He's not first-choice at Man Utd, and his loan spells at Peterborough, Molde and Oldham have been fairly uneventful.

There are a lot of issues to fix, but I'll put it on hold for five days rather than quick-failing. If these are addressed I'll read through it again, if not I'll fail it. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I've replied to the issues you brought up. I assume you have more, so please feel free to add them. – PeeJay 11:33, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll give this another read-through. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:33, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any further issues, but to me the prose still feels a bit dry and stiff. I'm probably reading into this too much, so I'll just request a second opinion since my concerns may be unfounded. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 02:29, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I got a second opinion from a user elsewhere, and the following two things were noted:

• The appearances for the England national team are uncited; "Amos is an England youth international, having appeared for his country at Under-16, Under-17, Under-18, Under-19 and Under-20 levels" should be an easy cite to find, but it is needed.
  • Done
• The prose in general feels dry, which I was concerned about. What I'll do is put it over at WP:GOCE and see if they can improve on it. They're usually pretty good so once that's done the article should be fine. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:21, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
  • With all due respect, we are writing an encyclopaedia, not a magazine. The more flowery the writing becomes, the more chance we have of falling foul of WP:NEUTRAL. Perhaps I'm being a little too defensive over an article I basically wrote myself, but I do think the language is pretty good as it is. The main concern, IMO, is the stubby sub-sections at the end of the 'Club career' section, which should probably be merged somehow. – PeeJay 19:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

    I actually agree with you on that; I'm usually pretty tough on flowery language, and that wasn't what I was looking to add. The copyedits that have now been made, however, I think make the article easier to read without adding in anything that you were concerned about. It finally feels like a GA quality article to me after a re-read, so I will close this as a pass. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:27, 9 July 2011 (UTC)