Talk:Beja people

Personal essay

I have removed a lengthy personal essay that was posted on the talk page some time ago. Wikipedia is not the place for it. See what Wikipedia is not. — mark ✎ 07:11, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

The Plight of the Beja People in Eastern Sudan By: Suliman Salih Dirar - Beja Congress email: bejawino1@hotmail.com

(essay removed)

For more details about Beja Please wrie to bejawino1@hotmail.com

Recent additions by Osheik Adam Ali

The recent addition of the Beja profile has been commented out because no sources are cited. I have asked Osheik Adam Ali to weigh in here. — mark ✎ 07:11, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Tigrinya?

The article states that a number speak tigrinya, but I've never heard this. I know that a significant number speak Tigre (which, using the -inya/igna suffix meaning "language of" would be Tigrinya), but [[Tigrinya is a different language spoken by the Tigray-Tigrinya people, who are by and large christian (which would make the Beja unlikely to adopt their language). I will change it, but feel free to rv it if I am wrong.

Yom 01:18, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

A source of information

For those who may come along later and wish to expand the article.[1] deeceevoice 12:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Another. Needs more Blemmeys -LlywelynII (talk) 08:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Egypt, Sudan & Eritrea

• Hi,[2] this map showing the distribution of Beja people within The region of Northeast Africa (Egypt+Sudan+Eriterea), Beja people mainly lives in Egypt where it's part of Northeast Africa , While Horn of Africa alone exclude Egypt. thanks for understanding --أبو الحارث بن قيس عيلان (talk) 17:58, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Scholarly sources

These two links are full of great information which could be used in the Beja people and language articles. Also on the Afroasiatic languages page. A.Tamar Chabadi (talk) 23:38, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Andrzej Zaborski

http://bejaculture.org/ZABORSKI.html

Claude Rilly

French: http://blogs.mediapart.fr/blog/gwenael-glatre/250310/du-nil-port-soudan-aux-origines-du-peuple-bedja-par-claude-rilly

Google Translated: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.mediapart.fr%2Fblog%2Fgwenael-glatre%2F250310%2Fdu-nil-port-soudan-aux-origines-du-peuple-bedja-par-claude-rilly&act=url

Arabic part in the article Google Translated:

From the Nile to Port Sudan

The assets of the people of Beja

In this lecture, Dr. Claude gives us Rey, director of the French department Sudanese Antiquities Authority, the latest findings of historical research about the Beja people.

Belong Beja language, like Arabic, to the Afro-Asian language family distinctive richness silent letters in addition to masculine and feminine feature is found in many African languages​​. The linguistic research has helped to answer the question he frequented for decades: Are current Beja descendants of Bedouin the avid Egyptians and Romans who were know Balblin?

Flourished emirates baleen along the Nile Valley after the fall of Meroe during the fourth and fifth centuries AD. Some princes are known through what was left of the documents written in both irrigated and Greek. Existing remnants of language Blin few: a short text in Coptic, the names of the leaders of their families, although it has enabled these documents demonstrate the link between language Blin and current Beja languages​​. If we go back to back, there seems to be a magical text, preserved in Egyptian papyrus roll back to the eleventh century BC, has been written in this language.

Beja people leave to historical legacy dates back to thousands of years, something that had been in doubt until the last years. A.Tamar Chabadi (talk) 23:37, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Also an interesting passage from a paper by Penelope Aubin in the Meroitic Newsletter[3]:

"Possible evidence for a ”j” sound for the Meroitic “d” is the word Medjay, the Egyptian term for an ethnic group from the desert region of Nubia whose members often served as police or servants in Egypt. In Demotic sources they are called ”Blhm” while in classical sources they are the Blemmyes, ancestors of the modern Beja.¹⁰³ Scholars have speculated that these are the “Mdd” people who are cited in the Irike-Amanote and Harsiotef stelae.¹⁰⁴ One might also wonder whether they could be ancestors of the Amag or Hamaj, who are cited in later documents from Funj history and by early Arab and European travellers.¹⁰⁵ Their name could also reflect an association with the area referred to as Amod (probably the region now known as Qustul between Gebel Adda and Faras) in Meroitic in the ẖlllḫror inscriptions.¹⁰⁷ The Meroitic word “mdes” in opening lines of the Kharamadoye stela may well refer to the king's dominion over this land or people. Browne in his Old Nubian dictionary cites the Meroitic word “mde” as possibly meaning "servant" under the Old Nubian entry for MEDJU.¹⁰⁷" A.Tamar Chabadi (talk) 09:41, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Removed for lack of a source

I removed this block of text from the "Name" section of the article, as it has no source and, frankly, looks like the sort of speculative origin story, tying a particular people to an ancient and exalted background, that is familiar to anybody who's edited articles on ancient European history. It could be true, but it's definitely the type of claim that needs strong sources.

The term Bejawi comes from Ta-Itjawy "people of Itjawy".

Ta-Seti Neferet, the mother of Egyptian King Amenhemet I's was of a peoples from Upper Egypt known as Ta-Seti. He built a great city state called "Amenemhat-itj-tawy" ("Amenemhat the Seizer of the Two Lands"), more simply called Itjtawy. Populations from the Ta-Seti region came to people Itj-tawy and from this power centre, Amenemhat I's armies extended the Egyptian empire. Egyptologists who believe Amenemhat I may have waited until his twentieth year to make the move to his new city base their evidence on an inscription found on the foundation blocks of the pyramid's mortuary temple. It records Amenemhat's royal jubilee, and also that year one of a new king had elapsed, suggesting that the pyramid was started very late in the king's reign. King Amenemhat I reorganized the administration of the country, keeping the hereditary nomarchs who had supported him, while weakening the regional governors by appointing new officials at Asyut, Cusae and Elephantine. Another move, both to dilute the army's power and to raise personnel for coming conflicts, was his reintroduction of conscription. In order to protect Egypt and fortify captured territory in Nubia, he founded a fortress at Semna in the region of the second Nile Cataract, which would begin a string of future 12th Dynasty fortresses. Along with protecting his newly acquired territory, he also create a stranglehold over economic contacts with Upper Nubia and further south.

Amenemhat's Ta-Seti army and conscripts came to be known Ta-Itj-tawy. In modern languages this is pronounced Bigawy, Bedjawi or Bejawi.

A. Parrot (talk) 22:27, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

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Lactose Intolerance

I think it is important to list the discovery regarding Lactose Intolerance that different alleles for lactase persistence have developed at least three times in East African populations, with persistence of 88% in the Beja pastoralist population in Sudan. Check Lactose Intolerance for the information and source please.

Ababda

Is mentioning the Ababda people as a "related ethnic group" really necessary? It would be like mentioning the Darod as a related ethnic group for the Somali people when the Darod like the Ababda are for Bejas are just a subset of the Somali ethnic group. Awale-Abdi (talk) 11:47, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

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Incorrect information concerning Meroe and the Beja...

This again...

During the first century AD, a Beja dynasty captured Meroë and ruled the Kingdom of Kush.

This is not factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.Tamar Chabadi (talk • contribs) 16:37, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Genetics

I'm reading the papers by Hassan that are cited in the section on genetics, & it seems to me that there are some errors on this page. However, this isn't my wheelhouse, & it's very possible I'm misunderstanding. Anyone care to review this with me? Pathawi (talk) 13:31, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Update: After a few more perplexing claims that seemed either to be misreadings of the articles cited or original research, I dug into the page's edit history to see who had added this material, with the hopes of contacting them for clarifications. It turns out that the entire substantive portion of the Genetics section was written by Soupforone, a sockpuppet of Middayexpress. (There were subsequent minor copyedits by other users, but no addition of new sources, or new information from these sources.) This user is banned in part for misuse of genetic research on Africa to support the user's POV. I have thus decided to remove this material. The research by Hisham Hassan should be counted as reliable for Wikipedia purposes. I'll try to reintegrate it to make it easier for others with better knowledge of genetics to follow the trail. Pathawi (talk) 14:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Qubba - Beja tombs

I first read this article today hoping to discover some factual information about the history of the many Beja tombs "qubba" - found in long strings in the Eastern Desert. But there's no mention of their burial practices. yoyo (talk) 09:49, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Got a source? If so, we can add it. Pathawi (talk) 12:05, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Source

Hi User:Cookiemonster1618

The new source you added isn't working. I haven't seen any source that mentions most of the Beja speak Arabic. Could you show them here.

MustafaO (talk) 07:02, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Its from Ethnologue and it is working you just have to click on it if you are not subscribed to Ethnologue than you can't view it. But it says "Most also use Sudanese spoken Arabic" Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 15:55, 11 November 2023 (UTC)