Talk:Beaudesert Shire

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 13:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

---

Shire of Beaudesert → Beaudesert Shire — The name of the shire is Beaudesert Shire. It's written as such on the logo. As a resident of the former Beaudesert Shire, I have never heard or seen it as Shire of Beaudesert. McLerristarr | Mclay1 10:08, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

It was legally known as the Shire of Beaudesert and printed as such in all official documents, including the gazettal of the shire in 1949, and all local laws produced by it until its dissolution (although the entity which produced them was known as Beaudesert Shire Council, which is where the confusion arises from). Furthermore the Act under which it was created didn't allow for the creation of "X Shire" type names; that was only possible from 1995 onwards through a loosening of the wording, although the Gold Coast City, Logan City and Redland Shire were alone in using different forms as they came into being through specific Acts of Parliament rather than proclamations under the Local Government Act 1936). It's quite amusing to me that although Victoria, Queensland and WA had essentially identical legislation for most of the 20th century, this confusion over naming only existed in the former two and was rather widespread, including amongst staff of the councils concerned. Orderinchaos 11:34, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, that was very informative; however, surely Beaudesert Shire is the more common name? Australia is officially the Commonwealth of Australia but the article is at Australia. McLerristarr | Mclay1 15:23, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, but Australia does not owe its existence to a piece of legislation - it is a continental form, an island, and a home to a people and a culture and a nationality. Nations in general have this character. The Shire of Beaudesert, as we found out in 2008, was brought into force by a notice in the Government Gazette, and signed away with a mere stroke of the pen. As a creation of the state government and owing its existence solely to an Act of Parliament and the good grace of the state government, the legal forms are therefore actually important and what the Act (and the state government) had to say about it is actually important. See also WP:RS and WP:OR (how can I tell that Beaudesert Shire is the common name, especially in the face of evidence such as state delegated legislation, [1] (federal government department recognising a submission by the shire, which confirms they themselves used the name), or this marketing exercise?). What the residents knew it as is not terribly important anyway - just as we name schools, universities etc at their official title regardless of what they're known as in the community or media, as they also owe their existence to legislation, and just as we do not name suburbs by subdivision names just because the residents all bought in the subdivision and like to think their suburb has a name it officially doesn't (I know of two specific cases of that, by the way). Orderinchaos 20:53, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

• Comment And, of course, there is no need to disambiguate Australia. There is a need to disambiguate Beaudesert, both from the village and house in different parts of England, and from the other entities in Queensland by the same name. The Naming Convention for Australia is that local government areas go under their official name. Skinsmoke (talk) 03:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Either title is acceptable IMO, but Google [2] [3] gives a little more than a 3:1 advantage to Beaudesert Shire, which is significant albeit barely. Andrewa (talk) 11:52, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.