Talk:Beatrice of Bavaria

Move from Beatrix

Good move! SergeWoodzing (talk) 22:08, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Arms

An image of Bavarian arms had been added to this article, but those were a much later Wittelsbach coat and never the arms of Queen Beatrice. SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:58, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 1 September 2024

Beatrice of Bavaria → Beatrix, Queen of Sweden – The given name is per WP:COMMONNAME:

• The spelling "Beatrice" is very seldom used for her in the literature. I can find a pair of 19th century books which call her Beatrice,[1][2] a short entry in Women in World History (1999) and a genealogy chart in some Strindberg's work[3]. The rest of the literature calls her "Beatrix".(e.g. search for Beatrix+Erik+1359+Magnus and its variations)
• The most common territorial designation is "of Brandenburg", by an overwhelming margin compared to other options. It is used for example in various Scandinavian encyclopedias[4][5][6]. However, the name Beatrix of Brandenburg is already taken. (There's no primary topic here, and that title should actually be replaced with a dab page.)
• Few sources disambiguate her with the house name Wittelsbach,[7], and a couple of German sources disambiguate her as Beatrix von Bayern. In other sources I have not seen Bavaria/Bayern being used for her. Some encyclopedias call her Beatrix without any such designation, and indicate that she is a queen in the subtitle.[8].[9] Since both "Beatrix of Wittelsbach" and "Beatrix of Bavaria" are rare in the literature (and likely to only hinder recognizability), I suggest that we just use a descriptive phrase "Queen of Sweden".

— Jähmefyysikko (talk) 14:43, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I am not convinced that the descriptive phrase is a better solution than any of the cited unambiguous names. How many sources name her "queen of Sweden" anyway? It does not seem like a more recognizable name. She is a very obscure person who died young and one cannot expect a lot of coverage, especially in English. If a move should be made, I would favor Beatrix of Bavaria, as this is the name used in a biography of her aunt Philippa;[10] or, alternatively, Beatrice of Wittelsbach, as used in the above cited biographical encyclopedia. Surtsicna (talk) 17:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Her queenship is not controversial in the literature. Erik is generally accepted to have been a king for a short period of time, and according to Ohlmarks, she was crowned Queen in 1357. She is called Queen Beatrix, svensk drottning or something similar in most of the sources. For example, see the Scandinavian encyclopedias cited above (the entries dedicated to her) or The Cambridge History of Scandinavia[11]. The above biography of Philippa also says that "her niece Beatrix was queen of Sweden".

I had missed the book about Philippa. Having at least a single English source makes Beatrix of Bavaria slightly less objectionable, even if it still a very rare name.

Adopting "Beatrice" based on a single source that does not even contain a single sentence of prose about her would be strange. One relevant guideline here is WP:UE, which says that if there are too few English sources to constitute an established English usage, we should follow the conventions in other languages. There is a sufficiently large body of Swedish literature (e.g. GBooks for Beatrix av Brandenburg) which establishes Beatrix as the conventional spelling. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 20:37, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I am not disputing her queenship. I am pointing out that she is not commonly called "queen of Sweden" in English language sources, so the proposed title is less recognizable than the others that you mentioned. Surtsicna (talk) 23:14, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

She's not called anything 'commonly' in English literature, since such literature barely exists. How many English-language sources can we find? A dozen in total, perhaps? If we really dig deep, then two dozen, with most of them just mentioning her given name, with no other details about her. Per WP:UE we should follow the Swedish conventions.

Perhaps a more recognizable name could be Beatrix of Brandenburg, Queen of Sweden? This is not WP:CONCISE, but would be consistent with the titles of similar articles (see the non-redirect pages at intitle:"Queen of Sweden"). For niche topics, concision is perhaps not the most important criterion. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 13:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)