Talk:Bayesian (yacht)

Bayesian Sinking

A lot of unsubstantiated conjecture on the sinking that the author would have no way of knowing. Captain distracted - capsize related to fuel on board etc. Better to leave this section until more reliable info is available. 199.189.172.130 (talk) 03:23, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Well said. We must beware of WP:RECENTISM, but could I guess include reliably sourced speculation in due course. Springnuts (talk) 06:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. It has been filled with speculation, stuff pushed in in front of sources which fail to support it etc. Wikipedia in one of its worse forms, where people confuse it with a blog. forum, facebook, whatever. Good luck – I think I will leave it for a bit and look back in a week or two when the passionate urgency has abated. Best to all, DBaK (talk) 08:24, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I've removed this serious BLP violation. DeCausa (talk) 08:26, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, and good luck! DBaK (talk) 08:31, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Let's not start omitting essential information for the reconstruction of the shipwreck and the evident responsibilities of the commander.

No speculation but objective facts, the storm was widely announced by the weather forecasts. The storm was visible on weather radar. Of course the captain could not have predicted the waterspout, but perhaps if he had seen the weather radar he could have saved the vessel and the people on it even in the imminent of the storm. The port, as eyewitnesses reported, was nearby.

From the newspaper article in Italian:

Testimoni: "Era ancora in rada"

Secondo alcuni testimoni, l'imbarcazione quando si è scatenata la tromba d'ara era ancora in rada davanti al porto di Porticello. L'ancora era abbassata. Il nubifragio che si è abbattuto avrebbe spezzato l'imponente albero a vela. Questo avrebbe provocato uno sbilanciamento dell'imbarcazione che ha provocato il naufragio.

"L'imbarcazione non era distante dal porto"

I velieri in rada erano due. E' stata propria l'altra imbarcazione a soccorrere la nave Bayesian. "Quell'imbarcazione era tutta illuminata - dice un uomo a Porticello -. Verso le 4:30 di mattina non c'era più. Una bella imbarcazione dove c'era stata una festa. Una normale giornata di vacanza trascorsa in allegria in mare si è trasformata in tragedia. L'imbarcazione non era distante dal porto. Bastava poco per alzare l'ancora e dirigersi in porto. Evidentemente sono stati sorpresi dalla burrasca che si è abbattuta improvvisamente e non sono riusciti a evitare l'affondamento".

A picco 18mila litri di combustibile nei serbatoi

Con il veliero è andato a picco anche un pesante carico di combustibile, pari a circa 18mila litri, la quantità contenuta nei serbatoi. La capacità complessiva è di circa 58.700 litri.

https://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/cronaca/sicilia/porticello-palermo-maltempo-affonda-veliero-dispersi_86138447-202402k.shtml 79.30.56.31 (talk) 12:49, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

But as this is an ongoing investigation, further details emerge.

https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/affonda-barca-vela-palermitano-7-dispersi-AFeqrgRD 79.30.56.31 (talk) 13:09, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

and there's something else...

https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/morto-un-incidente-stradale-stephen-chamberlain-ex-coimputato-linch-AFeGTYSD 79.30.56.31 (talk) 13:13, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

You are attempting to insert pure speculation into the article. If you are behind the IP who did this (same region) you will be blocked if you continue. We have strict rules on how we refer to living persons especially in the context of serious allegations. In that edit a false source was provided. But in any case you need to read WP:BLP. There is no "evident responsibilities" at the moment. Just you putting 2 and 2 together and making an excitable 5. That's called WP:OR and is prohibited in Wikipedia. DeCausa (talk) 18:00, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I acted in good faith following the reconstruction according to journalistic sources. well there are some obvious inaccuracies, released at first. The breaking of the mainmast does not seem to have ever occurred. Furthermore the boat was 700 meters from Porticello, at anchor. The video of the sinking of the sailing ship.

https://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/2024/video/bayesian-su-tgcom24-le-immagini-esclusive-dell-affondamento-del-veliero-a-palermo_86202735-02k.shtml 79.30.56.31 (talk) 21:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I've changed a sentence because it prematurely declared the 6 missing passengers as dead, when this is not yet confirmed. I'm unsure what to do with the "victims" section, whether to change it to "missing" or delete it entirely. Obviously once it's confirmed either way this should all be changed to reflect it. ~OneRandomBrit | User Page | Talk 10:44, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Name

Oh, just one last thing before I naff off in a strop. Is the name explicable? I thought it was simply Bayesian, like the stats. Pronounced Bayes-ian. I rather thought that was the whole point, because it had to do with how Lynch ended up so successful. So I was a bit surprised to hear a BBC reporter contorting themselves to make it foreign and exotic, so the boat was called the Bi-ESS-ian. Maybe I am wrong about all this (plus tbh I don't really care!) but if by some remote chance I am right, do we not have a duty to educate these poor benighted people? Bye for now, DBaK (talk) 08:30, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

The BBC news online site agrees with you that it's named Bayesian after Mike Lynch's PhD thesis and subsequent use of stats in his career. Weird pronounciation by reporters are nothing new! I vividly remember Moira Stuart always calling Baghdad 'Bug-uh-dud' - I don't know if that's how locals pronounce it, I imagine it must be something along those lines - but it was a rather ridiculous thing for her to do. Foreign place names have accepted pronunciations depending on the speaker's native language. In the UK we call Paris, Paris. We don't call it 'Parr-eee', nor do we call France 'Fraun-suh'. Having said all of that, Thomas Bayes was English and his surname was pronounced 'Bayz', so his statistical theorem is 'Bayz-eh-un'. One of these days I'm going to learn how to read and write phonetic symbols properly - for the moment I'll settle on Bayz-eh-un!

And I fully agree with your early comment about this article being loaded with speculation. Things like "the boat sank due to a storm" and stating the six missing people were dead. It's been improved upon now as far as I can see. The Italian authorities recently said that it is possible some of the six missing people may still be alive, albeit unlikely. I would imagine the divers have been knocking on the hull and listening for noises in reply - and if there were any noises coming from within I think that would have been reported (and the pace and scale of the diving mission would have been dramatically scaled up). Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 16:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Victims subsection

I'm not aware of how these things are done, but it feels wrong to have a victims subsection for missing and dead right after a survivors subsection - my first thought was that all listed in victims were confirmed dead until I read the comment in the last one saying that's the only confirmed dead. – 2804:F1...A7:C558 (talk) 01:09, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. With every hour that passes it becomes increasingly unlikely any of the six missing people will have survived (trapped in the hull), but that is beside the point. The article has used the word 'victims' for over 24 hours - almost from the outset I think - including at the time when there was still hope (however realistic or unrealistic) of finding people alive. Usually with high profile events such as this, one of the Wikeratti takes charge and keeps things painstakingly in order. It's surprising that this article has been so poorly written and developed. The words 'missing' or "unaccounted for" should be used until such time as the outcome is officially announced. Flusapochterasumesch (talk) 03:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

"Victims" is an odd heading anyway - anyone on board is a "victim". I've split it between "Missing" and "Confirmed deceased". DeCausa (talk) 06:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)