Talk:Batyr

Comment

I've had a go at rewriting the main paragraphs, but I don't know enough Russian to check the accuracy of the quote translation. My guess (based on the difficult wording of the paragraph) is that it needs someone to retranslate it! MeegsC | Talk 21:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

In the Russian original was a lot of vandalism Pogrbnoj-Alexandroff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.118.90.51 (talk) 21:38, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Death reason

Urological problems: The kidneys stones and an inflammation of kidneys. - unsigned edit by 24.168.39.49 (talk · contribs)

Newspaper citations [1] say "Zookeepers in the former Soviet republic of Kazakhstan accidentally killed a "talking elephant" called Batyr with an overdose of soporific drugs". Gordonofcartoon (talk) 20:03, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

• The reason of Batyr's death is the urological problems: the kidneys stones and an inflammation of kidneys. Your's 2 links isn't correct. If you go to that webpages you can't to see information. --216.194.61.93 (talk) 04:28, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

• Now "have poisoned"... These are the next gossips and inventions of journalists. --72.11.218.169 (talk) 05:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Fake information: "Zookeepers in the former Soviet republic of Kazakhstan accidentally killed a "talking elephant" called Batyr with an overdose of soporific drugs". The counterfeit information should be explained or is removed. --72.11.218.237 (talk) 22:44, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Wrong. The overdose account is cited in two newspapers, which are considered reliable sources. Nobody will ever take seriously an anonymous assertion that they're wrong. If you know better, it's up to you to provide reliably sourced references. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 23:01, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Ha! Ha! Hah! Do you really trust the Internet? Do you seeing that two newspapers? Wrong of your information based on only two newspapers but from one false source - Itar-TASS.)) Did was someone of the journalists present at Batyr's death or interviewed experts and workers of a zoo? Not! My information from experts, instead of from journalists or from the Internet. --216.194.62.34 (talk) 15:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I've reverted. Verifiability, not your or my assessment of truth, is all that counts here. "My information from experts" - see WP:NOR. And the sources you added are nearly all from forums and personal websites, which are considered unreliable. No-one is stopping is stopping you finding Russian-language newspaper sources. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 16:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Are you the realy fool or only pretend to be?! We know as Russian newspapers so we will not refer to this nonsense were written and written now. And if you very strongly would like to take advantage of your references to articles - write: "such messages are, but they are confirmed by nothing". --216.194.23.33 (talk) 18:46, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Citation problems

I've just added {{onesource}} and {{refimprove}} tags. The bulk of the article is a verbatim translation of a LiveJournal page - surely not a reliable source? - nor am I convinced of the reliabiity of the sites with biographical citations, as both appear to be sites hosting user-submitted material.

And, of course, the whole translation is crap: for instance, "Scientifically-practical actions". WTF? They mean "Scientific/technical publications". Gordonofcartoon (talk) 02:02, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

• Zooworlds.org Batyr (russian etc.)
• traditio.ru/wiki/Говорящий_слон_Батыр —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.194.61.93 (talk) 04:39, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I'm new to Wikipedia and have very little idea what I'm doing, I don't even know if someone will find this. But, I figure I might note that Kazakhstan did not exist until December of 1991. I realize the place still existed, but the wording in the article might at least say in what was present-day Kazakhstan instead of just Kazakhstan when referring to something from the 1960s through 1939. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UFLinguist (talk • contribs) 18:10, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Kazakhstan wasn't an independent country, but Kazakhstan Soviet Socialist Republic did exist as part of the Soviet Union.

That's like saying Alaska doesn't exist because it is part of the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.101.59.42 (talk) 18:42, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Quote translation

The quote by A. N. Pogrebnoj-Aleksandroff is pretty close to being incomprehensible. Can someone competent with Kazakh or Russian (not sure which the original passage was in) take a look at this, and maybe give a more understandable translation? EricWesBrown (Talk) 18:46, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

He probably understood a lot more than he could talk.

Elephants have a humanlike neuron count. The claim that "most of it is used to control the big body" is absurd, considering the fact that human stroke patients regain language skills faster if they learn to juggle at the same time, not slower as the theory of brain capacity theft predicts. Modern research on language acquisition shows that there is no difference in kind between language aquisition and normal associative learning, only a difference in complex neurological precision, which is exactly what the good neuron count provides. If he got the chance to point at symbols for words instead of having to talk with his trunk that like all elephant trunks was poorly adapted to human speech, he probably could have had a decent conversation. The fact that elephants of course lack the uniquely human naive indoctrinability may make language a bit more difficult for them, but not unsurmountably so. Elephants are probably the only nonhumans on Earth capable of investigating the causes of faliure, which is important for asking questions. 95.209.11.241 (talk) 17:58, 15 September 2011 (UTC)Martin J Sallberg

It should be noted that the description of this ability in the media as the capacity for speech - that is, the description Batyra as "talking elephant" - is incorrect: reproducible animals previously heard the sound are not part of the sign communication system that is language; therefore, such an act of reproduction is not speech. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.118.90.50 (talk) 21:55, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Lexicon

We have to add that again to:

• "Иди (на) хуй" — Go onto penis similar to the English expression "fuck you"—obscene Russian slang; said first and only time during a telecast shooting; peoples.ru/art/literature/poetry/beginner/pogrebnoj-alexandroff/poetry_19483.shtml
• "Хуй" — Russian slang for penis — seldom and abruptly; elephant-batyr.livejournal.com
• "Ба́-ба" — short form of "babushka" — grandmother; short children's sound "ba"; elephant-batyr.livejournal.com

he didn't use a word 'Ba-ba' as is "married woman" or as is "now..." (now this form is considered rude and can be used concerning any woman); also he told "хуй" as had being at the page before.[2]

Scientific

At described period had been the Soviet Union, but not modern Kazakhstan. [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.190.6 (talk) 06:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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DOB

Batyr was born on July 23, 1970 (not 1969!) and was the second child of the female elephant named Palma (1959-1998) and the male elephant named Dubas (1959-1978): the first baby elephant was killed by his mom immediately after birth at May 15, 1968. Pregnancy of elephants is 20-22 months. Batyr could not be born a year after the death of the first elephant. Magnobot (talk) 01:16, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

@Magnobot: But that doesnt mean the mother elephant couldn't have been pregnant with Batyr when she killed her first elephant. All the sources say he was born 1969. CLCStudent (talk) 15:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

• It's impossible. Wrong was written in the pedigree of elephants but Batyr was born in 1970. Magnobot (talk) 15:21, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

So does that mean all of the sources I have seen are lying? CLCStudent (talk) 15:23, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

• For example: The website of the Almaty Zoo says that it zoo was formed in the Kazakh SSR in 1935, but(!) at that time the Kazakh SSR did not exist, but it was the Autonomous Region. So what? Should they believe and rewrite the error? Magnobot (talk) 15:26, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

It is not just one source that says it is 1969, all of the sources I have seen say that.How do you know the mom was not already pregnant with Batyr long before she killed her first elephant? CLCStudent (talk) 15:28, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

• Oh, yes!.. About DOB of the Batyr is now lying, because someone rewrote the error or mistake from the Swiss website. At the beginning of the article, the date was correct. I communicated with eyewitnesses and employees of zoos, and also saw real documents. Magnobot (talk) 15:36, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Ok, I will accept this for now. CLCStudent (talk) 15:37, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

• You can see first edition. Thanks! Magnobot (talk) 15:41, 28 October 2018 (UTC)