Talk:Battle of Helm's Deep/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 20:17, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I'll start on this one in the next couple days. Hog Farm (talk) 20:17, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:21, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Criteria

1. Prose ✓ Pass

2. Verifiability ✓ Pass

3. Depth of Coverage ✓ Pass

4. Neutral ✓ Pass

5. Stable ✓ Pass

6. Illustrations ✓ Pass

7. Miscellaneous ✓ Pass

Comments

1.

• "Saruman's orcs breach the Deeping Wall" - I think it would be good to add a short description of what the Deeping Wall is. Readers aren't going to know what the Deeping Wall is unless they've read the books. (Lead)

Paraphrased.

• Should culvert be wikilinked? I'm not sure how common of a term it is. (Lead)

Done.

• Wikilink cavalry.

Done.

• I think in the lead, a short statement explaining that Erkenbrand was a leader of Rohan would be good.

Done.

• The burying of the Orcs in the Death's Down is explained and cited in the lead, it would be good to add a mention of this at the end of the section about the battle there. If that's done, the citation should be moved there per WP:LEADCITE.

Done.

• Wikilink Elf-warriors to Elf (Middle-earth).

Done.

• Consistency in naming - The article's named the Battle of Helm's Deep, in accordance with WP:COMMONNAME, but then the section about the battle is titled the Battle of the Hornburg. It would be best if the article title and the name for the event in the article were consistent.

Fixed.

• ", an area named after one of their kings." - Is this phrase necessary, since the fictional etymology of Helm's Deep was just explained in the preceeding paragraph?

Removed.

• "Men of Dunland" - Since Men is capitalized here, as it the proper name of Tolkien's race of Men is used in this context, it would be best to use a link to Man (Middle-earth) or Man (Tolkien) or whatever that article's called.

Done.

• " and human Dunlendings," - Delink Dunlendings since Dunland is linked in the previous paragraph, and the two redirect to the same place.

Done.

• "They charged into the fray. The Dunlendings dropped their weapons. The Orcs fled into the Huorn forest and were destroyed." - This reads choppy. The latter two sentences can be combined into one to make this smoother.

Done.

• "River Isen" - Just Isen is linked, but it would better if the full name was linked. A piped link can be used if necessary.

Done.

• "but had killed 42 to Legolas's 41." - Maybe insert Orcs after 42?

Added.

• Orcs are lowercase twice and uppercase all other times. This should be consistent.

Fixed.

• " glittering caves of Aglarond" - This whole thing is capitalized in other usages as a full proper name. This should be consistent.

Done.

• "Lórien" should be linked.

Done.

• Galadriel is a duplink

Removed.

• Wargs should be linked, and refined to the section about Tolkien in that article.

Linked, to his section.

More

2.

• Can we get fuller references for the primary sources section (mainly author/editor)? This would be desirable from a reference formatting standpoint, as well as because Christopher Tolkien at least gets editor credit on some of these, so it can't be implied this is all JRR

Added full citations of Christopher T's books to "Sources".

• Can we get page numbers for Hammond and Scull 2005? This book is long enough page numbers are needed.

Page refs provided.

• When known, it would be good from a formatting standpoint to get location= parameters for the book references.

Done.

• Film School Rejects (ref 9) looks a tad blog-ish, is this from subject-matter experts?

Removed, the other ref is sufficient.

• ch. 26 Top Ten Ways the 'Lord of the Rings' Books Differ from the Movies 8. The Battle of the Hornburg at Helm's Deep - Can we get the chapter titled in "" like was done with the chapter titles in the Tolkien references to make it easier to determine where in the book this is coming from?

Formatted.

• A WP:RSN thread from 2009 (Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_39#For_dummies_series) gives a weak consensus for the for Dummies books as being reliable. (Throwing this comment out for posterity in case anyone challenges the inclusion of this source, no action needed)

Noted.

• "Harvey, Greg (27 April 2011)." - This is part of the citation for a book, but it's not standard reference formatting for a book (looks like a cite web formatting)

Formatted.

• " The Two Towers: Extended Edition– From Book to Screen" - This is the only part of the citation. Is this a book? A website? If any other information on this source is available, please include it.

Added.

3.

4.

5.

6.

• In my opinion, the image of the Bayeux Tapestry and the comparison with the Rohirrim can be very relevant, but that's not mentioned in the text at all. Having it just as the image is a bit out of place. Would the Literary history section be a good place to throw in a brief, not WP:UNDUE, mention of Tolkien's view of Rohan?

Done.

7.

• Would it be possible to insert an infobox here, like how Battle of the Pelennor Fields has one?

Now that really is shudder-worthy, a mixture of UNDUE, OR, FANCRUFT, GRATUITOUS TECHNICOLOR ICON USAGE, CONFUSION OF FICTION WITH REALITY and AFFRONT TO ALL THE SENSES, not to mention cause to fall on one's sword, take hemlock, and drink oneself into a self-isolating stupor from which one would, with luck, never recover.

Exclusion is just fine.

• Is Aglarond an old name for Helm's Deep? Is so that should be explained in the Later works section. If not, I'm not 100% sure this section is relevant.

The Glittering Caves of Aglarond are described and illustrated at the top of 'Fictional geography'. They lie at the back of Helm's Deep. Gimli is horrified that anything so lovely should be used merely as a refuge. I've clarified the text.

That's all of got for this one. Hog Farm (talk) 23:59, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks as usual. I think I've answered everything. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:17, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

All concerns answered, promoting. Hog Farm (talk) 15:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)