Talk:Barrack Square

original location was further north

The article says:

... the land north of the location was used as a landing area for goods and people (as the current location lies further south)...

yet when I look at the map (Google maps or street directory), north of Barrack Square is inland. Perhaps the original location was west, or at best west-north-west. Presumably the current Barrack Square is built on reclaimed land - Perth Water#History says as much, and File:Perth Water 1838.jpg agrees. The article should probably mention this explicitly. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:54, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Apart from citing a deadlink, its crummy grammar anyway. How can a location be south of the same location? The writer might have been referring to the series of wharves and jetties in front of the esplanade including near the base of Mount Street and the then Bazaar Terrace. The base of Barrack Street has almost always been a significant landing site though — Henry Laroche Cole's jetty and warehouses down there are notable. I would just remove the phrase inside the parentheses. Moondyne (talk) 14:54, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Presumably what the parenthetical phrase is saying (somewhat redundantly, given the first half of the sentence) is "the current location lies further south than the land [north of the current location] used in the early development of Perth". Deleting the parenthetical phrase solves part of the "grammar" problem (and I've done that), but doesn't resolve the apparent anomaly that "north of the [current] location" is inland, so difficult to use as a landing area. (I doubt they had helicopters back then.) We need to establish the facts first, then we can sort out the right words to use.

Perhaps the originator of the current wording is watching and will offer some insight (or better still, a ref). Mitch Ames (talk) 11:41, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

facts man, nothing but the facts man - moondyne has the gist - the original water line was well north of the current square sats 11:55, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

http://www.thebelltower.com.au/downloads/History_and_Development_of_the_Swan_River.pdf

http://www.historycouncilwa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Foreshore-treasure-Port-of-Perth1.pdf

http://heritageperth.com.au/properties/barrack-square/

I'll use these in the next few days or so... Mitch Ames (talk) 14:49, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Not sure if these old maps add much more than the ones in the history council link given above, but the 'Perth Townsite 1838' map overlay in the 'Historic Maps' section seems to show that the original river edge was about where The Esplanade, Terrace Rd is. This 1906 overview of the redevelopment is a bit hard to follow, but might be of use to those more aware of what was done. There are some construction photos and some explanation of the reclaiming of land (including a comment about extending the tram lines 350 ft to the square) here. Damn the lack of aerial photography in the 1890s! The-Pope (talk) 15:37, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

That 1906 article is a great find and fills in some gaps. I've tidied up the text layer there which hopefully helps. Moondyne (talk) 02:13, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

"During the early development of Perth", Barrack Square didn't even exist, so I think the simplest solution is to just delete the sentence. If we can extract more useful information out of the refs about the changing shoreline, it should probably go to Perth Water instead. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I've also added the above refs to Barrack Square#Further reading. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:05, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

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