Talk:Barley/Archive 1

Cleanup

Added a cleanup template because the tail-end of the article looks to be a very long quote from an old "cyclopedia". Including the whole thing verbatim makes a poor article - especially as the style and vocabulary is rather dated - but relevant info could be picked out from it and verified by someone who has the time. --Zak 15:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

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Under the heading "Yield," I changed the line:

"The per country yield of production in 2004 was as follows:"

to read:

"The per-hectare yield of production in 2004 was as follows (in hectograms):"

I hope I was correct in assuming that is what those figures signify.

--Eric Martinson, 22:30 UTC, 11 March 2006

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I have deleted the following:

Barley may be divided into two major cultivar groups, fall and spring, to which may be added a bastard variety called bear or bigg, which affords similar nutriment or substance, though of inferior quality. The spring is cultivated like oats; the fall, like fall wheat. Early barley, under various names, was formerly sown in Britain upon lands that had been previously summer-fallowed, or were in high condition.

The most proper seed season for spring barley is any time in March or April, though good crops have been produced by seeds sown at a much later period.

Because the language suggests this is an extract from a 19th century British farming manual. The information is very out-of-date and only useful if in context, i.e. in block quotes with a source.

Mark Nesbitt 09:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

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"a malt that soon ferments and become slightly alcoholic." Isn't malt germinated grain that has been roasted? You would need some sugar to get alcohol. --Yak 08:57, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've never made beer. Does one add sugar? Wetman 09:02, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

no. In the germination process, the starch of the grain is changed into maltose, a form of sugar, and that is changed into alcohol during fermentation. Ungerminated grain only contains starch, no sugar. --Yak 09:09, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The germination process activates the DNA to create Amylase Enzymes. This also creates a small amount of maltose (A sugar). Brewers open the kernal in a mill and hydrate the barley with warm water bring it to between 142F and 158F to activate the Amalase and convert the remainder of the starch to sugar. This process is called mashing. The conversion takes from 15 minutes to an hour. Once converted the sugar water (sweet wort) is run off to the boil kettle -- Off the clock beer author. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.127.185.215 (talk) 03:51, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

The beer appearing in the photo is obviously wheat beer, not really appropriate for an article on barley. All sugars arising from malting are monosaccharides (fructose), which is essential for beer brewing, but not for spirits. Cane sugar (disaccharide) makes a very tart beer, since the yeast produce a foul tasting enzyme to invert the molecule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.140.159 (talk) 02:58, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, a citation would be needed to add the information to the page. I've substituted a photo from wikimedia commons, unfortunately one with advertising since there doesn't seem to be a photo without a brand name. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:44, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

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From the language, it appears certain that it wasn't just one paragraph quoted from the 1881 book, but the next three as well. I have assumed that to be so, and made the following changes

• moved the blockquote down
• changed Wiki header to html header
• enclosed conversion in brackets and rounded them appropriately, on assumption that they were not in original

I did not check earier edits to see if changes have been made in the quoted material. This should not be edited freely; snipping and ellipsis marks might be approriate. Gene Nygaard 13:16, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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What is "braird" supposed to be in that quote? Gene Nygaard 13:28, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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And what is 'luder' in the History section?

Swedish: luder - trot

Danish: luder - prostitute, whore

German: luder - hussy, minx

I think this might the insertion of this word might be a prank. Check the history. Rintrah 13:46, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Is the "bastard variety" of the Cultivar section also a joke? Rintrah

tenth?

Conflict: Barley is the tenth largest cultivated cereal crop in the world (530,000 km² or 132 million acres). Sorghum is the fifth major cereal crop grown in the world (47 million hectares harvested in 1996). Where does this data come from? yeh and why isn't there any UB40?

New to wiki, and not yet up to editing, so I'll just mention, someone might like to add Barley's use in herbal tea. Quoted from herbal tea: "roasted barley, known in Japanese as mugicha and Korean as horicha. The roasted flavor can be reminiscent of coffee (without coffee's bitterness and caffeine). It is often drunk cold in the summer."

Yes, what I love about mugicha in the summer is that you don't have to boil the water, as stated in the article. You can use cold water and let it steep overnight in the refrigerator and simply remove the barley bags the next day when you go for a cold drink. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.200.180 (talk) 19:44, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

pampas grass

--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.3.195.236 (talk • contribs).

I guess this was meant to be a suggestion for the article, but I'm not clear what pampas grass has to do with barley. --Singkong2005 ^talk 11:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Pearl barley?

There's no article for Pearled barley/Pearl barley.

For a start: http://www.foodsubs.com/GrainBarley.html looks like a good site for barley; also see http://www.cooking.com/advice/adgloss.asp?GlossType=ingr&Item=Pearl+barley

There's a number of references in Wikipedia, but mostly not linked. You can google "Pearl barley" and "Pearled barley".

--Singkong2005 ^talk 11:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Just when I wanted to add a comment on "pearled barley", I saw this comment =) Hmm... what is pearl(ed) barley? If we have 200 articles about all the Pokemons, we could have ay least have an article about Pearl barley. Or what do you think? Shandris^{the azylean} 20:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

FAOSTAT links broken

The article first two references are broken links to the FAOSTAT website. I guess they're broken as it seems FAOSTAT changed the way their website is structured. I have yet to find (or produce) a table that shows total world rankings of crops. Attempting to choose all commodities and all countries in the commodities/countries page, results in exceeding the 4000 record free subscription limit. Any ideas how the links might be amended?

Tmanto 10:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Usage as an hyperaccumulator for aluminium

Barley is apparently excellent in treating soil contaminated by aluminium as noted on this article. --Khokkanen 22:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Ag assessment

I've assessed this as only a Start because it is poorly cited, we need to improve the formating, there is no agronomy section, and the Production section is very limited. Marking this as needing attention at the Ag project's page.--Doug.^{(talk • contribs)} 19:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Barley Map

I know that significant levels of Barley are grown in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Wyoming, Colorado, Montana and Idaho. Why are these areas not on the map? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.56.108.172 (talk) 21:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Inter-fertility?

I put a fact tag on this claim. The previous version said the two "cannot cross-fertilize," but this new one says "are inter-fertile." Those are not familiar terms to me, but they seem to be contradictory. Neither is supported by a citation, and there are no wikilinks. Somebody needs to clarify this and provide a source. Lou Sander (talk) 14:12, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Barley is collaboration for WP:ACID for March 8th - 22nd

5 votes, Nominated February 28, 2009; needs at least 8 votes by March 14, 2009 Overdue

Support

1. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
2. Colonel Warden (talk) 17:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
3. FloNight♥♥♥ 18:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
4. KP Botany (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
5. Jack Merridew 13:31, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments

• An important cereal crop. Not a large article, so should be fairly manageable to work on. A good aim might be to get it to WP:GAN over a two week period as a good starter. Broad subject both geographically and fairly accessible. --Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
• Seems a reasonable choice which might help resolve the endless wrangling about the naming of plant articles. And I have a good DYK type hook for it... Colonel Warden (talk) 17:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
• A good pick with WP:GAN a reasonable goal since there is loads of information available. FloNight♥♥♥ 18:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
• Interesting choice. It might be nice to have an article about the botany of the plant, also. --KP Botany (talk) 02:24, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
• and I just loaned-out my copy of Guns, Germs, and Steel (which credits barley, amongst other crops, as well as available domesticable animals, with the rise of food production in Eurasia as a major reason why much of history played-out as it has)… Cheers, Jack Merridew 13:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, toward GA I guess...

OK folks, jot ideas down here. Please add content and layout first. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I figure Saffron is not a bad Featured Article to model it on really, in which case the Lead needs to be redone.

These infraspecies names are given at the genus article:

• H. vulgare subsp. spontaneum (wild barley)
• H. vulgare subsp. vulgare (barley)
• H. vulgare f. distichon (two-rowed barley)
• H. vulgare f. hexastichon (six-rowed barley)

and H. spontaneum is also a redlink. A description of plant would be nice. cygnis insignis 13:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC) P.S. Prompted by sniping commentary above, I think KP Botany's solution is appropriate; there could be an article on the plant at Hordeum vulgare. cygnis insignis 13:57, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I do not have a lot of time to work on this article, but I can track down sources for information - here is a good one for history: [1] Hardyplants (talk) 17:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. Other things -

• I have added a few tags to highlight some ref hunting

• the Composition really needs a secondary, not tertiary source.

• The As of 1881 section, erm, needs a maekover.

more later Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually I think the "As of 1881" section needs to go. It was added back in 2002 when it was normal to throw PD material into articles to build up content. I think it outlived its usefulness years ago. Guettarda (talk) 13:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I've removed it. Feel free to revert if you think otherwise. Guettarda (talk) 15:06, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Good riddance, IMHO. Now what about the picture of all that barley straw? Lou Sander (talk) 15:17, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

As the for Composition section, I think what really matters is finding a source that's less than a century old! :) Guettarda (talk) 13:59, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Update

• Needs some embellishment of its use as a foodstuff in Eastern Europe, the Middle east and Africa. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:41, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Compared

In the Food section, the phrase "compared to wheat, even to whole wheat": is what is meant "comparable to wheat, ..."? (I considered changing the phrase that way but realized the resulting meaning could be incorrect.)Svato (talk) 20:18, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I removed a long paragraph about some book by Jared Diamond that does not have much direct talk about barley. Perhaps Mr. Diamond´s book could be used as a REFERENCE to be cited, but it doesn't deserve to be the focus of an entire paragraph in the history of barley. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.210.213 (talk) 01:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I disagree - the Diamond book was a prizewinning key book in recent literature, and barley was a prominent early crop. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:57, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

You can't just assert that this material belongs in the article, or that it's important because the book won a prize, or even that it applies to barley in any way. You especially can't refer to the relationship between barley and Eurasian hegemony without backing it up. You have to provide a citation. And regarding the hegemony stuff, it needs to be a very specific citation, IMHO. Lou Sander (talk) 20:35, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

(facepalm) I just realised the book pages aren't there. I just read the book a few weeks ago. I will get on it today or tomorrow sometime. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:24, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Assertions attributed to Muhammad

Anybody know whether the hadith mentioned that Muhammad knew about heart disease, cholesterol or diabetes? Jimworm (talk) 22:54, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that jumped out at me, too. If Muhammad wrote about cholesterol, in the 4th century C.E., then his prophetic credentials are pretty solid. But I suspect someone is making an unwarranted inference from what he actually wrote. Yaush (talk) 02:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

i heard "he told to eat one by third food,1/3 water rest for air.roman king sent a doctor to prophet mohd to help,but amazed to see there is no diseases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.69.241.246 (talk) 17:36, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Aristae of barley

At Laki (the major Icelandic volcano of 1783) there is a quotation that reads

The aristae of the barley, which was coming into ear, became brown and withered at their extremities, as did the leaves of the oats; the rye had the appearance of being mildewed; so that the farmers were alarmed for those crops…The larch, Weymouth pine, and hardy Scotch fir, had the tips of their leaves withered.

There is a footnote that explains aristae as "a bristlelike structure or appendage, the ear of barley". It would be good to have that in this article, if a cite can be found? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Barley as an Allergen

Are there enough barley allergic cases to note this in the article, I have been allergic to barley (only one or two types, Barley malt being one) for as long as I can remember, but I wonder how significant it is. 96.42.46.42 (talk) 22:19, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Insect Pests

The article makes no mention of insect pests. Is Barley not susceptible to insect damage that might threaten crop yield?Virgil H. Soule (talk) 16:43, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

copypasta

A google search of wikipedia for "potential to improve nutrition, boost food security, foster rural development and support sustainable" turns up 9 pages of plant articles. The edits I checked were all by the same editor.

This looked like one of the larger and more prominent articles so I thought I'd point it out here. Homurssui (talk) 03:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

North Dakota

The list of cultivars seems to be heavily skewed towards US and even more heavily towards North Dakota... some astroturfing by some ND-an agricultural entity?

Taxonomy update

According to current taxonomic consensus (APG3, 2009) the order 'Cyperales' is now assigned as a family 'Cyperaceae' under the order Poales. This page needs an update in this respect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.246.31.112 (talk) 07:34, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Malted barley flour

Very often (in the US, at least) the enriched white wheat flour used in commercial baked goods contains "malted barley flour" along with the added nutrients, but the Food section of this article doesn't mention that use (nor does Enriched flour, but that's a far less comprehensive and credible article than this is). I came here wondering why malted barley flour is added to enriched wheat flour and found no answer. Since it is a relatively common use, the reason for that use should be explained here.--74.65.25.24 (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

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Ok and serves etymology section. --Zefr (talk) 15:14, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

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History of barley

The historical part is mixed, include many mistakes and contradictions. First - barley already appears in very large quantities in Jericho, Gilgal and Netiv-Hagdud, all are PPNA sites in the Jordan Valley. this is by far the earliest appearance, which predates Jarmo as well. Second, as for the spread of barley in the fertile crescent, barley was used as the basic unit of weight in Mesopotamia as early as the fourth millennium BCE, therefore, the note it spread only in the 2nd millennium is wrong. Third - Barley in Ohalo II was not domesticated, and Ohalo is dates to 20,000 BCE, not 8500 BCE as mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.137.70.227 (talk) 08:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC) The genetic map shows the trajectory of the spread of barley starting NE of the T&Eu rivers, but the text in the history section says it started near the Nile. Even on the scale of the map, the Nile is not near the starting point. Kdammers (talk) 18:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Font in bold

I think it would be easier to read the Cultivars section if the varieties are in bold without the single quotes. Let me know what you guys think. Rievebug (talk) 04:52, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

MOS:BOLD would disagree and some gnome would be around to remove it again. How about italic? (which is used extensively for the latin name of species, for pop songs, books, movies, etc)? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 10:35, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Cultivar names are NOT italicized, then they may be confused with species names. There is an internatinal convention for how plant names are to be presented. The single quotes are not needed in the format that is being used in this article. Hardyplants (talk) 11:53, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Here is some text from https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/2008/2-6/CultivarOrVariety.html : "Varieties and cultivars also have differently naming conventions. A variety is always written in lower case and italicized. It also often has the abbreviation "var." for variety preceding it. The first letter of a cultivar is capitalized and the term is never italicized. Cultivars are also surrounded by single quotation marks (never double quotation marks) or preceded by the abbreviation "cv.". For an example of a cultivar of redbud, consider Cercis canadensis 'Forest Pansy' (or Cercis canadensis cv. Forest Pansy) which has attractive dark purple spring foliage and pinkish-purple flowers." Hardyplants (talk) 12:05, 15 January 2021 (UTC)