Talk:Barkol Kazakh Autonomous County

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 01:30, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

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Barkol County → Barkol Kazakh Autonomous County — Convention to name autonomous counties in mainland China by the following format: [NAME] [ETHNIC GROUP or MINZU (民族)] Autonomous County . HXL's Roundtable, and Record 00:47, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Can you please provide a wikilink to the specific convention? Andrewa (talk) 13:22, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I mean, a few examples are Aba Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture, Diqing Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture. Sorry I only know the pinyin names for them and those are prefectures.

So looking around at article titles as well as WP:China should help.

I knew beforehand that this would not generate much controversy, but added the request anyway because it involves moving over an already existing re-direct. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 13:27, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

So, this convention is undocumented as far as you know? Andrewa (talk) 15:17, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

a convention does not have to be explicit to be a convention... --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 15:19, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Agree, but it is good to document them. This saves repeated discussions and needing to make a case each time.

Speaking of which, it would be good to make a case for this move. The fact that other articles are named in this way isn't a case in terms of Wikipedia policy as far as I know. Why are they named this way? Is it even correct? Or is it just that none of the contributors to these particular articles have considered the article title in the light of Wikipedia's overall policies, and any other relevant considerations? Or if it has been done, where is that discussion recorded?

If such discussion exists, it could form the start of a documented convention. If not, this is the place to start it. Andrewa (talk) 15:54, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I firmly agree with the documentation part, as I have had go to much trouble to argue things that should have been written down in stone.

I proposed the move to the expanded name because the full name (in English) tells the reader instantly that this county is different from many others because it is autonomous. And all autonomous divisions in mainland China have the ethnic label if the name of the dominant (or historically dominant) ethnic group is not immediately derivable from the name of the region (i.e. Inner Monglia AR, not Inner Mongolia Mongol AR, and Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region). --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 16:22, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

OK... so is this proposed convention (a) one that is already discussed and generally agreed but not formalised, or (b) one that is still not formally adopted and perhaps even undiscussed but is generally followed in practice, or (c) one that is proposed but has been neither explicitly adopted by discussion and consensus nor implicitly adopted by practice? Andrewa (talk) 05:54, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it is not at all set in stone and merely followed in practise (B). Know that many articles actually began on the Chinese Wikipedia and were translated to what we have here on English Wikipedia now. And ZH-WIKI invariably uses the official names for every administrative place in mainland China. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 22:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

• Support. Codified at Wikipedia or not, the normal practice here and out in the real world is just as the nominator lays out (e.g., The Population Atlas of China (Oxford), CIA maps). — AjaxSmack 02:21, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Barkol or Barköl

In this edit back in 2011 the page Barkol Kazakh Autonomous County was moved to Barköl Kazakh Autonomous County. I would like someone to confirm that Barköl (instead of Barkol) is the current official name of the county in Xinjiang. On p. 6 of 中国地名录: 中华人民共和国地图集地名索引 (1994), the English name for 巴里坤哈萨克自治县 is given as Barkol Kazakh Zizhixian instead of Barköl Kazakh Zizhixian. Xinhuanet also appears to exclusively use Barkol but not Barköl. Thanks for any help in advance! RcAlex36 (talk) 16:09, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 6 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 10:52, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

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Barköl Kazakh Autonomous County → Barkol Kazakh Autonomous County – Barkol instead of Barköl appears to be the official name of the county. The page was moved to Barköl Kazakh Autonomous County back in 2011 by User:Hvn0413 without prior discussion. The issue was raised on this talk page (see above) and the talk page of Hvn0413 but there was no response. PRC official media uses Barkol and 中国地名录: 中华人民共和国地图集地名索引 (1994) gives Barkol Kazak Zizhixian for 巴里坤哈萨克自治县. RcAlex36 (talk) 04:33, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom and because searching on Google Books and Google Scholar suggests that the spelling "Barkol" is more common. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 17:27, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support I was wrong. From the county's official site we can see the name of the county in Kazazh is باركول, which in the Latin script is Barkol. I was misled by the article in the Kazakh Wikipedia. Sorry. Hvn0413 (talk) 08:22, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.