Talk:Banksia menziesii

Untitled

++Lar: t/c 00:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Naming

Is this named after Robert Menzies Gnangarra 09:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

no I been looking it was after a botanist Gnangarra 10:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

galleries and images

I guess this begs the question how the best way to illustrate an article. My original idea is a pic or two in the story, which then became a gallery and is now shifted off to commons (where the gallery is). I am inclined to have one or two pix on the page. Comments? Cas Liber 02:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that a couple of informative pictures in a gallery with detailed descriptions is better than blank image in a commons cat Gnangarra 02:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that guys. When I moved them into a gallery I hadn't anticipated them being removed altogether.

The principle adopted by some (maybe most) Wikipedians (including me) is: does this image illustrate a point in the text? Images that do not are removed. Good captioning can help here. Why is the yellow image there? To illustrate the point that B. menziesii inflorescences come in attractive colour variants? Then the caption should say something like: "Banksia menziesii inflorescenses come in a number of attractive colour variants, as shown by this unusual yellow inflorescense on a tree at Cataby, Western Australia". With a good caption like that, it is almost impossible to justify removing the image.

A better example is in the current Banksia article, where it appears that we have used two images to illustrate response to fire. We really ought to recaption these to explicitly state that one illustrates death of the parent and germination from seed, whereas the other shows resprouting from a lignotubor.

Snottygobble 12:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

good idea Cas Liber 17:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

How exactly is the current layout preferable to this? The same images and information are included. Mgiganteus1 05:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I like images sprinkled through the article and wouldn't have minded the other way, but those in the know tell me that galleries are not good for featured articles. I do appreciate others having a go though. Welcome aboard :) Cas Liber 06:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC) Cheers Cas Liber 06:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Mgiganteus1, I have no objection to them being in a gallery, and indeed I put them in a gallery myself about a week ago. Immediately someone removed them altogether on the grounds that a gallery was not needed for an article with a commons link. I think this was not a good outcome so I reverted to the "sprinkled" version. I reverted your edit on the expectation that the images would again be removed altogether if I did not. Snottygobble 12:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

PR suggestion

• This article is a bit too short, and therefore may not be as comprehensive as WP:WIAFA critera 2(b) is looking for. Please see if anything can be expanded upon.
  • Its too short for FA, most species article will be. Gnangarra 01:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
• Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18 mm.
  • Fixed 2 incidences Gnangarra
    • Will need to apply all articles, before nominations. Gnangarra
• Per WP:MOSNUM, at Units of measurement, numbers with SI units of measure should have conversions in US customary units and vice versa. These conversions should keep to similar values of precision. For example, "the Moon is 380,000 kilometres (240,000 mi) from Earth". Note that the converted unit of measure uses a standard abbreviation, while the source unit is spelled out in the text.
  • done 2 incidences Gnangarra 01:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Will need to apply all articles, before nominations. Gnangarra
• As is done in WP:FOOTNOTE, for footnotes, the footnote should be located right after the punctuation mark, such that there is no space inbetween. For example, change blah blah [2]. to blah blah.[2]
  • fix incidence on ref 2 Gnangarra
    • Will need to apply all articles, before nominations. Gnangarra

Comments

• The opening paragraph should briefly define B. menziesii, say what is interesting or unusually about it, and then very briefly summarise anything of interest in the rest of the article. Who it was named after should be moved to some other section.
• The "Description" section is good except that it includes some ecological notes such as flowering time and response to fire. These should be moved into an "Ecology" section. Ecology section should also include info from genus article (e.g. pollinated by birds primarily, also bees and mammals; vulnerable to dieback) but with a special emphasis on any ecological aspects unique to the species (e.g. it has an unusually low seed set).
• Distribution and habitat section is okay but perhaps a little short. Is there anything else to say?
• Cultivation section is okay, but should mention that it is slow-growing, has an unpredictable form, flowers in 6-10 years from seed, tolerates hard pruning.
• I still think the image placement is unsatisfactory, but i don't know what the solution is.
• I propose removing the "Subgenus", "Section" and "Series" entries from the taxobox, thus reclaiming some room on the right hand side. Instead, introduce a "Taxonomy" section that states what subgenus, section and series it is in. Taxonomy section would be an appropriate place to state after whom it is named (i.e. move this from introduction), when it was discovered, the fact that no species closely resembles it but B. speciosa is probably the closest relative.

I'll come back later to help with this. Snottygobble 04:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

---

There was a paper called "Floret opening in Banksia Menziesii" that florets mainly opened in response to foraging by birds, but not bees, making birds the most important pollinator. Also a paper called "Self-incompatibility, Protandry, Pollen Production and Pollen Longevity in Banksia menziesii" which found that B. menziesii pollen is self-incompatible. i.e. it cannot fertilise itself. I'll read these some time and include the information. Snottygobble 05:02, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

To Do

1. brief taxonomy, link to Taxonomy of Banksia
2. brief ecology, link to Ecology of Banksia

Distribution map

First version of distribution based on flora base information, any issues suggestions etc before adding to the article somewhere. Gnangarra 12:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Does it go down as far as Waroona (southernmost record)? Cas Liber 09:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks I've edited it to extend the main section south wards to allow for location of Waroona. Remember to refresh your cache to view the updated version Gnangarra 10:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Hybrids

Interesting to note that both B. attenuata and B.menziesii are currently in flower around jandakot A/P especially near the interesction of Roe Hwy and Kwinana Freeway. Both the red and the yellow menziesii varieties are in flower in this area. But this is all WP:OR stuff, I'll to photograph if you think its worth the effort. Gnangarra 14:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

A good photo is always fun....a sunny day....a polarising filter.....a Featured Picture.... :) cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 14:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Sunny day...its been raining here since i left the note. Gnangarra 02:42, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Book title

There is a book published by Fremantle Arts Centre Press, Banksia menziesii by Philippa Nikulinsky, describing each stage of the reproductive cycle. The brief text is accompanied by a series of extraordinary botanical illustrations, both endpapers showing the seed of the plant.

Noted in Collins, Kevin (2008). Banksias. Melbourne: Bloomings Books. ISBN 9781876473686. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Banksia menziesii/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sasata (talk) 05:36, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments

• lead could be a tad longer

done Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• do not know what an "amenities planting" is

it means public parks, nature strips and bits and pieces like that. Appears to be more of an Australian term. Will have a think about an alternative. Essentially what it means is nature strips and public parks, so I figured it was actually just easier to write that. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• link/explain dieback in the lead

added " - from the soil-borne water mould Phytophthora cinnamomi Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• "climates of summer humidity" sounds slightly awkward to me

changed to "places with humid summers" Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:32, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• height given in description is greater than that in lead

forgot to change latter. done now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• "The leaf margins have serrated with many small" -> "are serrated" or missing a word

the former, and fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• "recorded an average of 1043 per flower spike." should clarify "flower spike"

clarified in previous sentence that inflorescence = flower spike Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• "Old flowers usually fall off the spikes quickly, with up to 25 large beaked follicles following." Not sure what's being said here… do large beaked follicles also fall off soon after the old flowers, or they grow to replace the flowers that have fallen?

the big woody follicles develop on the spike as and after the flower parts fall off. They don't fall off. Changed "following" to "developing" - does that help? Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• Banksia is inconsistently capitalized in the common names

should always be lower case - I think I got 'em all... Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• what does "firewheel" mean in "Firewheel Banksia"?

I have never seen an explanation of its derivation. I wondered whether it was a misheard "firewood banksia" myself, or how when looked from above an immature inflorescence might look like the spokes of a fiery wheel (anyway, this is all pers. comm. and unable to be cited :)) Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• "and Sirmuellera menziesii (R.Br.) Kuntze" is now" wasn't sure how to fix the extra/missing quote/italic thing going on here

I just removed the final extra double-quote which seemed to be in error Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• can we link road verge to long acre (road verge)? same thing?

yes, done Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• "Published in 1988, a field study conducted in banksia woodland near Perth anthesis occurred on an inflorescence" missing word somewhere

"'Published in 1988, a field study conducted in banksia woodland near Perth noted that anthesis occurred on an inflorescence at an average rate of 40 to 60 florets opening per day - bold added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:31, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• epicormic buds?

linked to Epicormic shoot Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• How about rearranging/expanding to rid those two isolated sentences in Ecology?

both expanded Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:58, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• "Byron Lamont has observed that" who's this guy (i.e. do we need to know his name?)

I mentioned his name as I have not heard that statement to be generally true, thus I felt it important to highlight the report as his observation rather than globally accepted fact (I can't find a Reliable Source which explicitly says otherwise, but I know the dwarf form as it is widely sold in nurseries) Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough... I also missed that his name was mentioned in the Curtin University study in the previous section. Sasata (talk) 14:27, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• "…high susceptibility to Phytophthora cinnamomi dieback,[33] it is unreliable in conditions with summer humidity or poor drainage." can we add something like "…, conditions which favour the growth of the soil-borne water mould."?

done Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• "An interesting feature" unencyclopedic

fluff removed Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• The caption in the cultivation section could be better (more descriptive)

okay, smoothed it out a little and embellished slightly. is this what you mean? Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• what's a "hard prune"? (I'm looking for a better adjective, unless that's commonly used in the field)

heavily pruned and added explanation. Could have said "pruned right back" too. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• refs will need a copyedit before FAC wrt:

• page range format (got the two non-two digit ones) Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
• consistency with capitalization of article titles
• format for author names; eg compare #6 with #13 - names separated by semicolon in one and "and" in the other; sometimes there's spaces between initials (#21) sometimes not (#22); sometimes there's no "." after the initial
• fullstops after citation or not? (#35 vs. #33)
• should probably put all refs into citation templates for consistency (eg. Lamont94)
• current ref #48 (Collins, et al. p. 67.) should probably be listed in a "Cited books" section

• Shouldn't "Menzies banksia" be "Menzies' banksia"?

I'll double check. My impression was that it lacked the apostrophe. It isn't a common alternative name anyway Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Here are some further sources I found. Of course, including these aren't necessary for GA, but I would ask about them at FAC :) Sasata (talk) 20:58, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

• this source says the height can reach up to 15 m

Hmm, not sure about this one. Consensus among offcial figures is 10 m, but there is one source I will double check. I checked the banksia atlas as if there was going to be any extra or different info, it'd come from there, and it had zero B. menziesii over 9.9 m, so I will discount this source. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• according to this, Ellis Rowan also painted this banksia

nice find + added Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• this source mentions that B. menziesii is particularly susceptible to atmospheric pollution from SO₂

nice find + added Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• this mentions an extremely low fruit:flower ratio in this species

added Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:35, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Water stress vulnerability of four Banksia species in contrasting ecohydrological habitats on the Gnangara Mound, Western Australia.

Author(s): Canham, C. A.; Froend, R. H.; Stock, W. D.

Source: Plant, Cell and Environment Volume: 32 Issue: 1 Pages: 64-72 Published: 2009

• more info about its phreatophytic nature

I emailed Professor Froend who was kind enough to email me a bunch of papers. I will double check but think it included this one A very technical paper on measuring the xylem pressure of four species of banksias. Very technical and quite esoteric. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Covariation between intraspecific genetic diversity and species diversity within a plant functional group

Author(s): He, TH; Lamont, BB; Krauss, SL, et al.

Source: JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY Volume: 96 Issue: 5 Pages: 956-961 Published: 2008

This was pretty general and covered alot of species - there was little specific to add I recall. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Selective herbivory by mammals on 19 species planted at two densities

Author(s): Rafferty, C; Lamont, BB

Source: ACTA OECOLOGICA-INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY Volume: 32 Issue: 1 Pages: 1-13 Published: JUL-AUG 2007

This one was an experiment in fencing off seedlings of various species from herbivorous mammals in bushland near Perth. It showed that some menziesii was likely eaten. it is tricky to see how this adds anything specific to the article other than "there is evidence herbivores eat the seedlings" Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Microbial community composition and functioning in the rhizosphere of three Banksia species in native woodland in Western Australia

Author(s): Marschner, P; Grierson, PF; Rengel, Z

Source: APPLIED SOIL ECOLOGY Volume: 28 Issue: 3 Pages: 191-201 Published: 2005

added. good one. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Phosphite reduces disease extension of a Phytophthora cinnamomi front in Banksia woodland, even after fire

Author(s): Shearer, BL; Crane, CE; Fairman, RG

Source: AUSTRALASIAN PLANT PATHOLOGY Volume: 33 Issue: 2 Pages: 249-254 Published: 2004

added Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:10, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Purification of anthocyanins from species of Banksia and Acacia using high-voltage paper electrophoresis

Author(s): Asenstorfer, RE; Morgan, AL; Hayasaka, Y, et al.

Source: PHYTOCHEMICAL ANALYSIS Volume: 14 Issue: 3 Pages: 150-154 Published: MAY-JUN 2003

• It's got cyanidin and peonidin-based pigments

added Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:03, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Banksia propagation. In-vitro multiplication of Banksia species.

Author(s): Tynan, K. M.; Scott, E. S.; Sedgley, M.

Source: Australian Plants Volume: 21 Issue: 166 Pages: 79-82 Published: 2000

a little esoteric, but added Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:48, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Early lignotuber formation in Banksia - Investigations into the anatomy of the cotyledonary node of two Banksia (Proteaceae) species

Author(s): Mibus, R; Sedgley, M

Source: ANNALS OF BOTANY Volume: 86 Issue: 3 Pages: 575-587 Published: SEP 2000

Added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: Storage temperature affects viability of Banksia menziesii pollen

Author(s): Maguire, TL; Sedgley, M

Source: HORTSCIENCE Volume: 32 Issue: 5 Pages: 916-917 Published: AUG 1997

Hmm - I can see the abstract here. Quite esoteric and I am trying (unsuccessfully) to see how/where it can be worked into the article. I am tempted to leave it out as just too specialised. What do you reckon? Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks pretty technical from reading the abstract, but this is one of the articles I can get in the library. I'll check the intro & conclusions and see if there's a take-home message about why the study is relevant, and add it in myself if it looks worthy. Sasata (talk) 04:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok I have the journal in hand. Basically, they were trying to develop a method to test pollen viability (to improve Banksia breeding programs) and used this species as a model. Quotes: "...Banksia pollen, after drying and storage over silica gel, can be stored relatively cheaply in a refrigerator or freezer long enough for breeding requirements. Storage above 0C is not feasible for more than a few weeks." "In vitro germination of B. menziesii pollen was not significantly affected at temperatures from 15 to 20C, perhaps reflecting natural conditions in the field environment during the flowering season." "Floret position on the inflorescence had no significant effect on pollen viability, so pollen can be collected from any part of the inflorescence, as long as the pollen is fresh." There ya go, I'll let you decide what, if anything, to do with that information :) Sasata (talk) 16:57, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I think it is really veering away from material of interest to the general reader. I am thinking of how to make it relevant but it is tricky when I think of how to insert it into the article as is. Thanks for checking though as I will use the info when I start up my horticulture business ;)) Casliber (talk · contribs)

• Title: COLOR VARIATION OF BANKSIA-MENZIESII BLOOMS FOR CUT FLOWER PRODUCTION

Author(s): BICKFORD, S; SEDGLEY, M

Source: JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURAL SCIENCE Volume: 69 Issue: 6 Pages: 993-997 Published: NOV 1994

Not too fussed about this one. The colour variations are well documented elsewhere and have seen this cited. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: PISTIL STRUCTURE OF BANKSIA-MENZIESII RBR (PROTEACEAE) IN RELATION TO FERTILITY

Author(s): CLIFFORD, SC; SEDGLEY, M

Source: AUSTRALIAN JOURNAL OF BOTANY Volume: 41 Issue: 4-5 Pages: 481-490 Published: 1993

Somewhat esoteric but some useful material added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: SHOOT GROWTH IN RELATION TO CUT FLOWER PRODUCTION OF BANKSIA-COCCINEA AND BANKSIA-MENZIESII (PROTEACEAE)

Author(s): FUSS, AM; PATTISON, SJ; ASPINALL, D, et al.

Source: SCIENTIA HORTICULTURAE Volume: 49 Issue: 3-4 Pages: 323-334 Published: MAR 1992

added Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• Title: FLORAL INITIATION AND DEVELOPMENT IN RELATION TO THE TIME OF FLOWERING IN BANKSIA-COCCINEA R BR AND B-MENZIESII R BR (PROTEACEAE)

Author(s): FUSS, AM; SEDGLEY, M

Source: AUSTRALIAN JOURNAL OF BOTANY Volume: 38 Issue: 5 Pages: 487-500 Published: 1990

added Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:43, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• I just noticed this figure caption "The biggest threat to B. menziesii is clearing of land for housing" is not elaborated in the text, and needs a reference. Any more details? Sasata (talk) 05:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

One of the blindingly obvious issues is that much of its range is in the Swan Coastal Plain, much of which lies in the way of urban expansion of Perth. It is really sad driving around Perth's northern suburbs seeing swathes of bushland bulldozed and cleared for housing development. I spent a few hours trying to look for a decent reference online and it was surprisingly difficult. I did find a poster but was hoping for some government source. Will ask some folks in the know... Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

(update) rejigged and have a reference for issues of its range lying within urban development. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:37, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok, there's a few minor reference formatting details to take care of, and the image File:B menziesii dist map gnangarra.png should probably have more explicit source info (maybe just a link to the website) for FAC. Might also be good to shuffle the pics a bit so the three aren't clumped together at the start and the middle. And improve the "bark" caption :) Otherwise the article looks pretty good, and meets the GA criteria, so I am promoting it now. Sasata (talk) 05:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

more picts

• 
  Banksia menziesii early inflorscence
• 
  Banksia menziesii early/new leaf growth

Just a couple of recent picts Gnangarra 07:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Now to figure out how to juggle them in....Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:49, 23 September 2017 (UTC)ok listen I just found this article and I have found this same exact PINE cone in Oregon USA . I have about 8 or 10 of them .