Talk:Baitullah Mehsud

Popular belief

why was this section removed, where is it and why no reasons has been given for its removal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrizwankhan (talk • contribs) 20:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

CIA agent?

Baitullah Mehsud is a CIA agent whose mission is to create chaos and disillusionment amongst Pakistani muslims. On the other hand Jalaluddin Haqqani who is promuslim and propakistani is being targeted by American drones in Miranshah. The proof is in plain view.

Can you provide any evidence of such a poorly substantiated claim? WP addict 0 (talk) 06:44, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:42487241 mehsud203.jpg

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Not from the Taliban

baisullah is a local warlord who is not from the Taliban or Al Queda. He is independant like Hekmatyar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.76.225.62 (talk) 14:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

But he is associated closely, especially by Hamid Karzai. He's considered the driving force behind cross- Pakistani-Afghan border attacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.197.11 (talk) 21:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

{{cn}} -- see talk

This edit introduces some controversial material that has no references. Please remember the wikipedia aims for "verifiability, not truth".

I think this section, if it remains unreferenced, has to be moved here to the talk page.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 18:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

"Warlord"? Or "militia leader"?

Is "Warlord" a POV term?

I think if the article is going to call him a "warlord" then it should reference an authoritative source that calls him a warlord. We don't get to call him a warlord on our own authority.

Until then shouldn't we call him a "Militia leader" or Tribal leader"?

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 03:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

'Tribal leader' would not suffice. Mehsud is heavily armed and frequently uses aggression to achieve power through violence. Many tribal leaders are peaceful. WP addict 0 (talk) 06:44, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Not sufficiently documented

I am removing the unreferenced assertion that Abdullah Mehsud was a CIA agent. Later in the paragraph there is a properly cited reference to AM being a double agent. Islamonline is the only citation for this bold claim. So it has to be explicitly mentioned. This only needs to be said once -- not twice. Geo Swan (talk) 02:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Baitullah Mehsud supported by CIA?

The assertion that Baitullah Mehsud is supported by the CIA seems dubious. The U.S. is currently engaged in fighting with militant groups linked to Baitullah Mehsud. The CIA officially states that Mehsud was most likely behind the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, who was seen as being too pro-Western. Furthermore, the allegation is based upon the fact that Islamabad supposedly gave the U.S. intelligence of Mehsud's location and the U.S. failed to conduct airstrikes in Pakistani territory. 1) Inaction does not equal support. 2) Islamabad is opposed to U.S. airstrikes on its sovereign territory. Such a bold allegation needs more sources. Please refer to Wikipedia:Verifiability#Exceptional_claims_require_exceptional_sources as well as Wikipedia:Fringe theories--RDavi404 (talk) 05:12, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Unless someone can provide further evidence, I'm going to remove the section altogether. It has been nearly two months and no one can yet produce trustworthy evidence supporting the claim. The current reference reads more like an op-ed piece than anything containing verifiable substance.--RDavi404 (talk) 20:15, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

His picture

File:Http://thenews.com.pk/updates pics/3-31-2009 73243 l.gif taken from thenews.com.pk, the largest circulating English paper in Pakistan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.173.4.87 (talk) 06:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Unconfirmed death

You're all confirming his death, despite the fact that intelligence agencies aren't confirming it yet. This is POV. 92.11.208.29 (talk) 14:14, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment

Interesting how many inaccuracies the recent press coverage contains.

Several Pakistani stories claim Abdullah Mehsud was more important than Baitullah Mehsud; Several Pakistani stories claim Abdullah Mehsud lead the Pakistani Taliban before Baitullah Mehsud; Several Pakistani stories claim Abdullah Mehsud was Baitullah Mehsud's brother;

Geo Swan (talk) 01:02, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

"several pakistani stories claim" provide reference. Sarmadhassan (talk) 07:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

See Baitullah_Mehsud#Relationship_with_Abdullah_Mehsud--RDavi404 (talk) 18:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The reason I raised this concern is that it shows some problems we may encounter, with reporters who start covering the death reports, and don't do enough research. Geo Swan (talk) 06:09, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, what's your point? whether he was more important than Abdullah Mehsud or not, this Wikipedia article is not comparing Baitullah and Abdullah? It's just an article about Baitullah Mehsud isn't it? Sarmadhassan (talk) 10:10, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

My point is the need to be particularly careful to attribute claims to their sources. It would be easy to specious insert claims into the article because reporters new following the Mehsuds are publishing stories, like that the two men were closely related, or that Baitullah took over from Abdullah, that aren't backed up by the work of those commentators who have followed their careers long term. Geo Swan (talk) 23:36, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Death contested by close associate

The BBC is now reporting that Commander Hakimullah Mehsud states that "the reports of his death were the work of US and Pakistani intelligence agencies." The article titled "Pakistan Taliban chief 'not dead' " is currently (Saturday evening European time) topping the front page's Other Top Stories section. Perhaps we should strengthen our article's caveats with regard to the verifiability and the sources relaying that Baitullah Mehsud is dead. Wikipedia should not use lopsided intelligence press releases as reliable sources even if a plethora of international news media are propagating their content – if that is what has happened in this case. __meco (talk) 16:22, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The lead quotes Mr. Mehsud, Robert Gibbs and the ISPR. None confirmed his death. I don't know what more we can do. I'm confident in those sources and glad that this story has been linked from Google News since yesterday, for anyone who cared to look. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:51, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Death confirmed?

I'm trying to reach consensus on the issue. Maulvi Omar, spokesman and close aide to Baitullah, has retracted his previous statements that Baitullah is still alive. He now states that Baitullah was slain in the missile strike. Western media have portrayed the repeated denials of his death as a stalling tactic while the TTP tries to sort out succession to Baitullah. Is it too soon to change "reported" to "confirmed" throughout the article? --RDavi404 (talk) 13:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

According to the BBC, Hakimullah Mehsud and Wali-ur-Rehman have now retracted previous denials and confirmed Baitullah's death.--RDavi404 (talk) 15:20, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Rdavi404, thank you for noticing. Good work. If I can figure out how to do it this will be an ITN nomination. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Date of Death

Hakimullah Mehsud and Wali-ur-Rehman claim that Baitullah died on August 23 while government sources claim that he died during the missile strike on August 5. From the period between Aug 5-25, Taliban sources denied his death although various Taliban members, like spokesman Maulvi Omar for example, wavered between denials and confirmations. At the same time, the Pakistani and US governments maintained their belief that he had already perished in the attack, and "analysts" cited by news organizations believed that the TTP were denying his death to give them time to determine a successor amid a power struggle.

I think it will be very hard to determine an actual date of death due to the confusing circumstances and the difficulty of confirming any information emerging from this region. I suggest that we list his date of death as "August 2009" since that seems to be the only time frame agreed upon by all sources.--RDavi404 (talk) 17:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree, although could we add in the intro somewhere the exact date is unclear or disputed, as at the moment it just mentions August 5th. BritishWatcher (talk) 17:27, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Are you certain the picture currently in use (File:Baitullah Mehsud.jpg) is Baitullah? The page from which it was taken does not specify that it is him, and the person in the picture closely resembles Abdullah Mehsud (see here or here). These two pictures ([1] and [2]) are of Baitullah, and do not closely resemble the picture used here. In other words, I'm pretty sure File:Baitullah Mehsud.jpg is actually a picture of Abdullah Mehmud. — The Man in Question (gesprec) · (forðung) 01:18, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, the source does say it's Baitullah, but I'm guessing ScrapeTV has it wrong. — The Man in Question (gesprec) · (forðung) 01:21, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Three more pictures of Abdullah Mehsud: [3], [4], and [5]. Clearly the current picture is wrong. — The Man in Question (gesprec) · (forðung) 01:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for trying. BBC News among others has an AFP portrait which I can add. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:40, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

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