Talk:Bahr El-Baqar primary school bombing

Name of this article

I have noticed that the name of this article expreses a clear POV. The naming of a military incident as a "massacre" is appropriate if the act was an intentional targeting of civilians. The Time Magazine article says that the Israelis were targeting what they thought was a military facility. A similar issue has been disucussed on the talk page of 1996 shelling of Qana. --Cdogsimmons (talk) 00:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

this incident wasn't an incident ,it was really intentional targeting of civilians.

Israel carried out this massacre in order to weaken the morale of the Egyptian soldiers, and Israeli newspapers itselfs condemned this massacre because of it targeted of civilians not military target The Time Magazine Is not a neutral source, because Britain was in support of Israel in time of war Mr.Ibrahim.ID (talk) 17:27, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Find a cite then.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 02:34, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

added massacre to incident because calling an attack where a school was targeted an incident is insulting to everyone including the attackers themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.235.174.116 (talk) 16:14, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

• Neither "incident" or "massacre" is ideal. I suggest a third title that doesn't hint at either POV be choosen. Perhaps something along the lines of "1970 bombing of Bahr el-Baqar primary school". --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

• When anybody attacks a primary school killing 46 and wounding 50 kids it isnt a incident its a massacre --Eskandarany (talk) 23:42, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

A massacre is an INTENTIONAL mass killing. Bombing a building that you thought was a military base is not a massacre. Considering how often the Arabs have hidden military bases under hospitals and schools and used both for their operations, it was perfectly acceptable to target with the info they had. Metallurgist (talk) 11:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a source on Egyptian practice of using civilians as human shields?

it was an aerial attack, not artillery bombing behind-line-of-sight positions. Israeli practice of trying to demoralize it's enemies by massacres is nothing new to them. In the War of Attrition article is stated: "September 8, 1968: An Egyptian artillery barrage kills 10 Israeli soldiers and injures 18. Israel responds by shelling Suez and Ismailia.". That shows that the act of deliberately attacking civilians during the war of attrition has been carried out by Israel. The Israeli side was the one claiming they have mistaken the school for a military installation, so that is not a neutral POV, but merely an Israeli justification of it's act.

So, here is what is going to happen; the one sided POV "incident" is to be replaced with "Massacre", and " Israel had mistakenly believed " is to be corrected to " Israel claimed it had mistakenly believed ". ( ΡHARAOH  The Muslim  13:52, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Are you seriously suggesting that "incident" is non-neutral but "massacare" is? Your opinion of what Israeli practices are, based on a single sentence in a wikipedia article, is WP:OR. Do you have a source saying that the killing in question was deliberate? Otherwise, give it a rest. Poliocretes (talk) 14:45, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Massacre is the truth, while maybe there is no neutral source to cite that right now, there is no neutral source to cite it was just an incident. Until some one comes up with a neutral credible source stating that the act was just an incident, we can not take Israeli justification of the act as neutral. ( ΡHARAOH  The Muslim  17:04, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Whether you believe Israeli justification is immaterial. It is reported by the Time article, a perfectly valid WP:RS. WP:BURDEN is quite clear: burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. As "massacre" is a loaded word, the burden of proof in on you to prove that it should be used. Poliocretes (talk) 05:36, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Got a whole bunch of sources backing up the "massacre" naming. So you support calling attacking a school or any other civilian building in the middle of a civilian area -a village in this case- an incident; maybe it was the children's mistake to go to school any way.I support an opinion mentioned here earlier of just calling the article a raid or bombing, and let the intentions in question be cleared out in the article body. Editor ThaddeusB suggested 1970 bombing of Bahr el-Baqar primary school, i support this, and suggest another version 1970 Raid on Bahr El-Baqar School or similar. So, any objections? ( ΡHARAOH  The Muslim  00:16, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I have no problem with ThaddeusB's bombing title. I see that you've also opted for a personal attack on me with some poorly crafted cynicism. That's just sad. Happy editing, Pharaoh. Poliocretes (talk) 04:44, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

It was not a personal attack, Poliocretes. Sorry if i made it look that way, but i think you already understand my POV of getting frustrated at calling areal bombing of a primary school in a middle of a civilian area killing and disabling innocent children just an incident. Happy editing, fellow editor. ( ΡHARAOH  The Muslim  13:27, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Wrong Location, should be Al Sharqia and not Port Said

The Arabic section says it was in Al Sharqia Governate, not Port Said, see location.
Here is the Arabic page to the description of Bahr Al Baquar And here is the Arabic page for this article for easy reference. 8227 16:15, 19 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by A8227 (talk • contribs)

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Quote from Ramadan

Im curious as to what exactly is covered by the ellipsis in the quote. How much space is between those lines and how do we know it has any relevance to this article if it comes several pages later? nableezy - 18:28, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 January 2023

i worked in the israeli military for 10 years and a f4 fighter pilot for 4 years and they gave me a mission to bomb a school in sharqiya and i refused beacuse my grandparents live in sharqyia but they threatened to torture my family and kill me so i couldnt do anything but do it and thankfulyl my grandparents were still alive and please remove the part where it says the mission was mistake becuase i was forced to do it it would mean so much to me sorry for my bad englihs 197.56.22.194 (talk) 19:20, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done small jars tc 22:41, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 April 2023

Replace:

Official sources claimed to have collected images of the school by reconnaissance satellite consistent with military settings and that some students were receiving military training.

With:

Israeli officials claimed to have collected images of the school by reconnaissance satellite consistent with military settings and that some students were receiving military training.

It’s a claim made from the israeli side alone from israeli officials as the cited source state. Stephan rostie (talk) 16:11, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done Actualcpscm (talk) 16:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

All the townspeople denied that any military installations were in the town at the time of the raid.

The NYT contemporaneous report is "All the townspeople denied that any military installations were in the town at the time of the raid." That should be added. https://www.nytimes.com/1970/04/13/archives/no-arms-evident-in-egyptian-town-site-reportedly-bombed-by-israelis.html Mcdruid (talk) 06:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Added. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)