Talk:Back to Black/Archive 1

Archive 1

UK credit list

I'd say a list of who played every instrument on every song is needed as this is supposed to be an encyclopedic entry (so with as much detail as possible). It's information, not a review. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.49.218 (talk) 17:58, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

who?

too bad there is no information about who wrote what?! 62.167.38.128 05:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

UK credit list

I removed this long list, it was completely unnecessary. Sue Wallace (talk) 23:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I see this has been re-instated, can you explain why this long list is needed for this article? I can't see that this is the norm. other artists albums listing everyone and their dog. Please see Wikipedia:Embedded list. If no reason can be given why this long list is needed I will remove again. Sue Wallace (talk) 23:30, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

For the Wiki Albums I have looked at they give a track listing and a Personnel Section for the entire album not a credit listing for each single Edkollin (talk) 01:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's over the top, it could also be classed as fancruft, ie, no-one else would be interested in that info except an obsessed fan, I might take it up with an admin, I don't want to get into an edit war with an eleven year old. Sue Wallace (talk) 02:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

the Personnel section is a good idea, but it should indeed be album-wide. It can be condensed from its current state. The "(British version)" should also be removed from the title, as it implies that maybe on other versions the songs are played by different musicians. tomasz. 22:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Mark Ronson did not co-write the songs. He produced them. This is entirely different. Removed from 'Writer' tab. 86.130.176.237 (talk) 17:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia convention

Per Wikipedia convention I moved this article from Back to Black (album) to Back to Black. See Master of Puppets and Master of Puppets (song). --Plantron (talk) 16:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Album covers

Way to many alternative album covers. only show the most prominent one used behind the main album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.156.240 (talk) 21:06, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Does anybody know for certain what the relationship is between Tears Dry on Their Own and Ain't No Mountain High Enough? Sample or interpolation? Part or whole? --VinceBowdren (talk) 14:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Me & Mr Jones

I removed a whole paragraph of unsourced stuff about the song Me & Mr Jones because it infringed the living-person-biography guidelines at WP:LIVING. --VinceBowdren (talk) 14:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

And I removed it again after 99.248.52.5 (talk) reinserted it. Same reason still applies:

Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space.

(from WP:LIVING). --VinceBowdren (talk) 09:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge

This re-release does not deserve its own page and should be merged with the original release 'Back To Black', similar to all 3 re-releases of Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' which has been condensed into one article. Someone please do this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reqluce (talk • contribs) 18:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Distorted

Does anyone else think this sounds distorted? Does the reissue fix this problem, because I can't listen to it as it is. AJUK ^Talk!! 10:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the album is quite distorted - there is nothing wrong with your cd. Horrible, i wonder why none of the reviewers picked up on this. appearently they listened to it on their fisher price my first cd player. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.82.153 (talk) 12:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Portugal

Was there any special reason for this album to be released in Portugal first (and by 20 days!)? 81.84.102.102 (talk) 17:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

It has sold almost 3 million copies in the UK to date so it should be certified 10xPlatinum NOT 8xPlatinum!! She is SO undercertified in the UK (I bet that they don't give her the certification that she deserves due to her provocative and unconventional behaviour... or not but anyway something should be done!! THIS ALBUM DESERVED TO GO DIAMOND (3 MIL=10XP) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.129.254.101 (talk) 22:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Updated UK sales

I don't really know how to add references, but this week's Music Week report gives Back To Black's UK sales up to the end of 23 July 2011 as 3,092,198 overall - 2,262,399 of the original version, 824,764 of the Deluxe Edition and 5,035 as one half of the double album 'Frank & Back To Black'.

Link is here: http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=1046069&c=1

Can someone please add this in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.81.95 (talk) 12:39, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Assessment

(Passion Alert) Yeah, I would just like to say that it's unfortunate that the media, particularly here in the U.S. have slandered Winehouse's reputation in the days and weeks since her death. Some media pundits are very quick to take that one snippet of the song "Rehab" and ignore the rest of the song and the rest of the album, especially if those parts contradict the refrain of "Rehab". I also believe that these same media outlets are missing the humor in that song. Winehouse was a very funny lady there. The same thing that happened to John Belushi when he died has happened to Winehouse. Granted, she did have a wild reputation but I also think she had a tremendous God-given talent. I also don't think she was some tragic figure. It's also no mystery why Tony Bennett ended up singing her praises. Winehouse's voice reminds me of Billie Holiday as does Norah Jones' voice. Her music will live forever. It's that good. Shemp99 (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2011 (UTC) Shemp99

Back to Black's sales

Back to Black has sold more than ten million. At the Mobob awards in september 2011 they said it had sold something like seventeen or 15 million. --Mossty (talk) 12:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Just watched it type in Amy Winehouse tribute at the mobo awards. They say t sold over 17 million copies before they introduce Dionne Bromfield. They do not mean Frank and Back to Black combined if I could post a link I would but I don't know how but you should be able to find it online and then if you can post a link do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.103.107 (talk) 12:25, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Bak to Black sold over ten million albums by 2008 according to IFPI sales it sold over eight million in 2011 so that together is 18 million thanks--Grettdumbido (talk) 09:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

That's original research, which is not acceptable. Thanks. Dan56 (talk) 14:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

The album's influence and impact on music

There should be a section on the albums influence and impact on other artists and modern music in general. Wikipedia normally has that on albums that made an impact. Back to Black certainly had an impact, it paved the way for 21, Lungs, Rockferry, Do You want the Truth or Something Beautiful, Our Version of Events all of these album might not have been as successful or even made if wasn't for Back to Blacks success and that's not my analysis that's what the people who made these albums like Adele, Florence Welch, Emeli Sande have all said. Emeli Sand mentioned Back to Black as being her main influence in songwriting as it convinced her not hold anything back on an interview you can find on the BBC website. Several mainstream critics and music magazine's have all said that too. There really is a wealth of interviews from critics and artists ranging from Adele, Lady Gaga, Carole King, Duffy, Paloma Faith, Emeli Sande even Tom Jones all talking about Back to Black's influence on them it really is I feel a big omission from this article. --Zolfianyarvelling (talk) 15:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

BB

• http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/8665126/Amy-Winehouse-album-Back-to-Black-re-enters-US-charts.html

Simon (talk) 13:40, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Already included in the Posthumous success section. SN▲P • SN▲P 23:19, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Back to Black's sales

Don't know what this wiki's beef against Winehouse is, but no fucking way has Back to Black only sold twelve million. Look at whats written on this very page!

Region Certification Sales/shipments Australia (ARIA)[195] 3× Platinum 210,000^ Austria (IFPI Austria)[196] 7× Platinum 140,000x Belgium (BEA)[197] 3× Platinum 60,000* Brazil (ABPD)[198] Diamond 250,000* Canada (Music Canada)[199] Platinum 100,000^ Denmark (IFPI Denmark)[200] 3× Platinum 120,000^ Finland (Musiikkituottajat)[201] Platinum 33,884[201] France (SNEP)[202] 2× Platinum 440,700[203] Germany (BVMI)[204] 6× Platinum 1,200,000^ Greece (IFPI Greece)[66] Platinum 15,000^ Hungary (Mahasz)[205] Platinum 6,000x Italy (FIMI)[206] 2× Platinum 160,000* Japan (RIAJ)[207] Gold 100,000^ Netherlands (NVPI)[208] 5× Platinum 350,000^ New Zealand (RMNZ)[209] 3× Platinum 45,000^ Norway (IFPI Norway)[210] Platinum 40,000* Poland (ZPAV)[211] 2× Platinum 40,000* Portugal (AFP)[212] 2× Platinum 40,000x Russia (NFPF)[213] 2× Platinum 40,000* Spain (PROMUSICAE)[170] 2× Platinum 160,000^ Sweden (GLF)[214] Platinum 40,000^ Switzerland (IFPI Switzerland)[215] 7× Platinum 210,000x Turkey (MÜ-YAP)[216] Gold 50,000* United Kingdom (BPI)[8] 11× Platinum 3,513,084[55] United States (RIAA)[60] 2× Platinum 2,403,800[62] Summaries Europe (IFPI)[69] 8× Platinum 8,000,000

Counting all of them together that comes to over 17 million and that's not even all of its sales! Most online sources state that it has sold over 20 million that's the most accepted figure. Even if it has sold less than 20 million 17 million its still closer to twenty million than 12 million. 12 million is the more inaccurate figure to put down. That's just trying to do down Winehouse's popularity and success. You'd never do this for the likes of Adele and Florence and the Machine so she took drugs get over it so has fucking everyone from John Lennon to Jimi Hendrix to Kurt Cobain to Janis Joplin why is everybody being so up tight when it comes to Winehouse. Honestly all this crap to try and do her down "oh she took drugs she shouldn't be allowed her grammy awards, we can't have a statue up to her, we have to make out she only sold half of what she actually sold, Duffy and Adele are the new Amy" just because she took drugs. Sid Vicious, Phil Spector, Joe Meek and Keith Moon have fucking killed people for gods sake! Stop being so uptight about Amy Winehouse everyone and get over it that she took drugs! --Zolfianyarvelling (talk) 16:15, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

@Zolfianyarvelling: First of all, watch your tone, as this is not a discussion forum. Secondly, who even brought up Winehouse's drug problems? There is no "beef" and no one is trying to "do down" anything—this is strictly about providing a reliable source for Back to Black's sales. What Dan56 meant in his edit summary is that some of the certifications achieved by the album are based on shipments, not actual sales, therefore calculating sales based solely on certifications violates WP:SYNTH. SN▲P • SN▲P 19:44, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry I wsn't talking about Dan I know he's a good guy who's done a lot of useful edits. However there are a lot of people who keep doing her down on this sit. I mean look at the 27 club page so many people keep wanting to take her out of that because she is "junkie" which is ironic when you consider they were all junkies LOL. I thought that it might just be another one of these things.--Zolfianyarvelling (talk) 09:57, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

I know you weren't trying to offend Dan or any other user, I was referring to your use of cuss words on this talk page. As I said, this is Wikipedia, not some fan forum, so changing Winehouse's sales based on her drug addiction or any other aspect of her personal life would be completely biased. I guess Gigwise is reliable enough to support the 20-million sales claim. :) SN▲P • SN▲P 18:19, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Robert Christgau Review

• http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=Amy+Winehouse

Simon (talk) 07:04, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Back to Black

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Back to Black's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "rstone":

• From Back to Black (song): "100 Best Songs of the 2000s: Amy Winehouse, 'Back to Black'". Rolling Stone. Wenner Media. 17 June 2011. Archived from the original on 8 July 2012. Retrieved 20 September 2014.
• From Life for Rent: Walters, Barry (24 September 2003). "Dido: Life For Rent: Music Reviews: Rolling Stone". Rolling Stone. Archived from the original on 2007-10-01. Retrieved 2010-03-02. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help); Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 00:50, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Worldwide sales of Back To Black

Hello, everyone with a bit of knowledge knows Back To Black sold nowhere near 20 million copies worldwide. It sold under 10 million copies by the end of 2008 as per IFPI year end charts with its best year coming in 2007 at 5,6m, was communicated at 12 million recently by Billboard and mediatraffic website, although not official and with some flaws for local releases, put it at 12 million as well. Sales from all world areas (8m+ in EU, 3m in NA, close to nothing in Asia, less than a million in Oceania+Latin America) also put WW sales at 12 million. Last but not least, Universal confirmed in its business year end report rounded up figures of 6 million sales in 2007 and 4 million in 2008, and 1,7 million in 2011, those being the 3 years on which it sold the bulk of its sales. All links refering to the ludicrous 20 million figure are from gossip magazines with 0 clue of charts and sales. Thanks to let me put back real information rather than such a mocked figure by all chart experts. MJDangerous (talk) 16:05, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Now that you presented your point in a civil, sensible manner, the 12 million figure does seem more realistic. I hadn't realized the 2015 Billboard link was originally published by The Hollywood Reporter. Next time discuss the matter instead of changing content without providing actual sources (not just year-by-year analyses), or else it will look like you're just being disruptive. snαp • snαp ^(talk) 03:33, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

References

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Back to Black/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Y All the start class criteria Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details Y At least one section of prose (excluding the lead section) N A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians Y Categorisation at least by artist and year Y A casual reader should learn something about the album. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 04:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 08:49, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Back to Black/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: HĐ (talk · contribs) 06:45, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

One of my all-time favorites! I'll try to review this in the upcoming week, HĐ (talk) 06:45, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay; below are my comments

Lede

• Did Winehouse "hire" the producers? I believe it's the job of the record label; Winehouse could collaborate with or call them to produce with her, I'm not sure she had the authority to "hire" them

   Done - Fixed it, and the "hired" part on the Recording and Production section was removed as well.. AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:51, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• "Mixing was done by" → I prefer active voice to passive voice

   Done - Fixed it. AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:30, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• I would say "the second best-selling album of the 21st century so far", given that this century has not ended yet

   Done - Fixed it. AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:24, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• What do you mean by "rare" tracks? Are they unreleased songs?

   Done - Deleted the word. AppleWormBoy (talk) 13:21, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Background

• I prefer the quote (where Winehouse expressed her dissatisfaction) to be paraphrased

   Done - Fixed it. AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:57, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Recording

• Is Amy, My Daughter a documentary? If so, please specify that

   Done - Added that it was a memoir. AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:32, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• Why is there {{sic}} in the title of "Me and Mr Jones"?

   Not done - Usually, when there's an abbreviation, it ends with a period (i.e., Mr., Mrs., Jr., Sr., etc). And in the original liner notes of the album, the title had the "Mr." abbreviation without the period. So, that's why I added in the {{sic}} bracket to indicate the word being used erroneously. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:30, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• That should not be it; the title is distinct and not meant to reflect correct usage of the English language (No one would write "Dirrty [sic]" or "Bangerz [sic]"). — HĐ (talk) 08:10, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

• Any comment on this issue? HĐ (talk) 02:38, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Reverted back for you, then. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:13, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• Was there any reason why Winehouse teamed up with Ronson? Or they just met up one day in NYC?

   Done - I expanded the info on their 2006 meeting in New York - AppleWormBoy (talk) 13:08, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• "The majority of the songs produced by Ronson were done" → I suggest replacing "done" with "completed"

   Done - Fixed it. AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:32, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Music and lyrics

• I don't like the short quote that appears in the middle of the paragraph; I would like to see the quote paraphrased

   Done - Fixed it. AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:52, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• That's quite a lot of info for "Rehab". I feel like you can cut out some bits of info which do not necessarily belong here, for they can appear in the "Rehab" article instead

   Done - Removed the part on the Amy film and transferred the info to the Rehab article. AppleWormBoy (talk) 13:17, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

• Now the first paragraph is clunky... I'd like to see it separated into two smaller paragraphs. HĐ (talk) 08:12, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

 Done Separated the paragraph into two. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:36, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

• Is Hello Beautiful an appropriate and reliable source? I have no knowledge on this site

   Not done - The site usually focuses on well-sourced news of female African-American celebrities with several op-eds (such as with Winehouse's song "Wake Up Alone"), and it is owned by a media corporation here in the States called Urban One, Inc. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:45, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Will try to finish the review within this weekend. So far the article appears very well-written and comprehensive, HĐ (talk) 09:04, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Release

• Where is the info regarding the release of the standard edition?

   Done - Found a source for the release date. AppleWormBoy (talk) 10:58, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Touring

• No sources found for performances in late 2006
• This section is mostly unsourced; please find sources for performances like Lollapalooza or Virgin Festival

   Done - Found the corresponding book source for this section. Hopefully it suffices for you. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 10:19, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

• Nope, the book is blatant copyright violation (if you scroll down for more content; it is a copy-paste of the Wikipedia entry Amy Winehouse). Maybe you can go to the original article on Wikipedia to find better sources directly cited in it

 Done Found individual sources. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:34, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Critical reception

• This is blatant WP:QUOTEFARM; please paraphrase and rewrite this section

   Done - Transferred the retrospective review from Wolk to the Legacy section, and deleted/paraphrased some reviews to de-bloat the section. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 11:32, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

• I'd recommend grouping the rankings in an order, either ascending or descending (eg. the album was ranked at number one by ABC, number two by DEF, number four by..., eight by...) instead of random rankings like what is written right now

   Done - Fixed it with sources. - AppleWormBoy (talk) 11:22, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

• "This is the second time Winehouse has been nominated for the Mercury Prize;" → tense

   Done - Alternated it with this improved sentence (hopefully): "This was the second time that Winehouse was nominated for the Mercury Prize" - AppleWormBoy (talk) 09:58, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Chart performance

• Chart trajectory is often advised against; I'd recommend keeping what is essential to the album's success. For example, regarding the UK success, I'd keep: debut position, first-week sales, total sales as of [date], any notable records (nth best-selling album of [year/century], certifications [latest]), and reappearance on the chart following Winehouse's death. This section is now bloated and filled with excessive information

   Done - Hopefully I've de-bloated enough excessive information in this section (i.e., deleted the deluxe album information). AppleWormBoy (talk) 11:58, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Legacy

• "fearless and experimental female musicians" → how does this album show that Winehouse was "fearless"?
•  Done - Deleted the word; now it's just experimental. AppleWormBoy (talk) 10:19, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Overall

• The article is well written and meticulously sourced (except where I pointed out). Once all of my concerns are addressed, this article is suitable for a GA icon, HĐ (talk) 08:26, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

• Since all of my concerns have been addressed, I'm happy to pass this GA review. Keep up with your great work, HĐ (talk) 08:55, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks so much! :) - AppleWormBoy (talk) 12:00, 4 June 2019 (UTC)