Talk:Back in the High Life

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:31, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

• Back in the High Life
• Unique Recording Studios
• John Robinson (drummer)

)

JR in 2017

• ... that the opening drum pattern of the Steve Winwood album Back in the High Life was performed by John "JR" Robinson (pictured) at Unique Recording Studios in New York? Several sources including Billboard 2005, Modern Drummer 1987, and Modern Drummer 2017.
• ALT1: ... that John "JR" Robinson (pictured) kicked off the Steve Winwood album Back in the High Life with a drum solo he played at Unique Recording Studios in New York?

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nyma Tang, Template:Did you know nominations/MS Europic Ferry, and Template:Did you know nominations/James P.M. Ntozi.
• Comment: Both articles have been expanded more than 5x in the past few days. The studio article went from about 130 words in this revision on July 6 to around 1,200 words in this revision on July 10. The album article went from 323 words to 4,100 words. Isento was involved in the recent expansion of the album article but not the studio article. Binksternet (talk) 17:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

5x expanded by Binksternet (talk) and Isento (talk). Nominated by Binksternet (talk) at 17:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC).

• • I have added John Robinson (drummer) to the nomination because I just expanded that biography more than 5x. I removed the old ALT1 hook because it did not mention John Robinson. Binksternet (talk) 07:26, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I also added an image from 2017, taken by Suzanne Teresa who sent an OTRS email confirming free usage. Binksternet (talk) 06:55, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Here is a review of all 3 articles:
• Back in the High Life: 5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Images are freely licensed. QPQ done.
• Unique Recording Studios: 5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Images are freely licensed. QPQ done.
• John Robinson (drummer): 5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Images are freely licensed. I have added 2 "citation needed" tags to this article as these facts are pertinent to the DYK nomination. QPQ done.
• I think the phrasing of ALT1 works best, but I would like to know why you're not adding that he brought in his own drum kit? ALT1 hook ref verified and cited inline.
• Regarding the image, the crop looks very strange, like he's wearing some kind of headgear. I suggest using either the full image or this other, brighter image.

JR in 2017

JR in 2011

• Yoninah (talk) 14:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for the review, Yoninah. I did not say anything about Robinson bringing his own drums because I did not think I could do it wihin the hook word count and without sounding like it was too much detail. Choosing a photo: The more brightly lit photo is still in process with OTRS; photographer Tim Shahady sent his approval by email but the OTRS volunteer replied with a followup question, which means the photo is not quite ready for DYK. I thought the "headgear" cropped version was fun and unusual but I'm perfectly fine with using the full photo instead, the one by photographer Suzanne Teresa who sent her OTRS approval and donated a whopping 35.7 megabyte image. Regarding the citation needed tags and references, I have tacked on the proper references to support the individual sentences, bringing another few refs over from the album article which supply more detail. I hope that covers all the concerns. Binksternet (talk) 16:25, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

• ...And now the Tim Shahady OTRS is approved and the 2011 (mislabeled 2010) photo is now in the public domain. Binksternet (talk) 18:02, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

• Yay! I think the brighter image is best, but will leave it up to the promoter. All hooks and images approved. As this is a multiple nom, you can go over 200 characters, but remarkably, you have gone under that limit. I personally think this would add to the hook, explaining what he was doing at the studio:
• ALT2: ... that John "JR" Robinson (pictured) kicked off the Steve Winwood album Back in the High Life with a drum solo he played on his own drum kit at Unique Recording Studios in New York?
• Or, if he's really that famous:
• ALT2a: ... that John "JR" Robinson (pictured) brought his own drum kit to Unique Recording Studios in New York to do a drum solo for the Steve Winwood album Back in the High Life? Yoninah (talk) 18:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

• ALT2 is great! ALT2a doesn't work as well because it seems like Robinson was only hired for a single solo. In fact, he was hired to fix several songs and he ended up playing drums on six songs out of eight. Binksternet (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you. ALT2 good to go. Please run this in the image slot. Yoninah (talk) 19:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Back in the High Life/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 21:46, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

As promised, I'll review this. I can't think of any reasons to quickfail, everything looks reasonably sourced and images / media are covered by the respective licenses. I was surprised to see only one citation to While You See A Chance: The Steve Winwood Story / John Van der Kiste, but perhaps the book only covers a couple of pages to document this album. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:46, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Lead

Is Steve Winwood really a "rock" singer? With Blind Faith, unquestionably, with Traffic, probably, with "Valerie", definitely not.

Why is Winwood's personal life important to mention in the lead? If it influenced the music (cf. Face Value), then that should be mentioned, otherwise it seems a bit to WP:BLPGOSSIPy to state up front. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:48, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Regarding "rock singer", I dropped "rock".

The personal life is part of what I wanted to convey. I think of this article as being the topic of "what Steve Winwood was doing in the years 1985 and 1986", generally between Talking Back to the Night and Chronicles. I'm trying to give the reader as much context as possible in this very brief format. Binksternet (talk) 23:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Background

• "Weisner encouraged him to stop hiding behind the Hammond organ and accept his position as front man and entertainer." Perhaps my search isn't working well, but I can't see where "Hammond organ" is specifically mentioned in either source given.
• "The latter first existed as a song title idea carried around by Jennings in a .... " - this sentence is rather long and a bit rambling; could it be condensed into two (or more)?
• "when he was at Winwood's house in fall 1984" A tricky one this, but which variety of English should we be using about a British musician working in the US?
• "Back in the High Life Again" provided the name of the album, and was considered the title track, but it came very near to being missed altogether." I'm slightly confused by what this means - do you mean that the track was only considered for the album at the last minute, and was subsequently used as the title? If that's the case, probably better to say that
• "More recently, Stanshall originated the lyric to the song "Arc of a Diver"" - what does "originated" mean in this context?
• I'm not sure why the image of Chaka Khan is in this section, given she isn't mentioned in it

Kiste talks about Weisner and Winwood's performance style: "Weisner... impressed on Steve that what they had to do was to translate what he did best music-wise to visuals... The stage show to support Hight Life... proceeded along the same lines, when he stepped out from behind his keyboard for a couple of songs. As Ron Weisner remarked, in the old days, he used to be 'very laid-back and timid'." I added a Kiste reference there. But the Rolling Stone reference says "Winwood stepped out from behind his keyboard and … entertained. Weisner says, 'I said, "Steve, I mean, when I saw you in the past, I never knew if you had legs," because you would never see him up. He would be very laid-back and timid.'” Of course, Winwood's keyboard of choice for live shows is a Hammond B3 with some other digital keyboard on top of it, probably a Yamaha DX7, and two other keyboards off to one side making an ell, perhaps a Minimoog with a Roland on top. The Hammond is by far the biggest one, the one that a person would be "behind". As a background bit of info, Chris Welch writes in the regrettable hagiography Roll With It that when Winwood played the ARMS Charity Concerts in 1983, "he gave an impressive display of confidence" which was a surprise to the observers because he had previously "slowly evaporated into self-effacement during his years of hiding behind a massive Hammond organ with Traffic." So Winwood's history of hiding behind a B3 is explicitly in the literature.

Rewrote the "existed" bit.

Regarding the season 'fall', how would you write it in UK style? Certainly we can say late 1984 but it wasn't all that late. Latter half?

Trimmed the bit about "missed altogether".

Reworded "originated" although it's a fine synonym for "provided" or "composed" or "birthed" or "came up with".

Chaka Khan image is searching for a place in the article. She is looking for a spot along the right-hand border, because her back is to the right. Where would you position her so that she blends well with the text and doesn't interfere with the other images? My solution was the "Background and writing" section which was devoid of images. The "Recording" section is packed with stuff. Perhaps I can jettison the Titelman text box on the right which says "Sixty seconds, max", and swap in the Chaka Khan photo. Binksternet (talk) 04:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Recording

• "Tracking began in Studio C at Power Station" - do you mean "recording" instead of "tracking"?
• "When Corsaro had to leave to honor a commitment with Fleetwood Mac" - what sort of commitment?
• "but Winwood was not finding his muse." - I don't understand what this means, and it's unsourced
• "Once Winwood's creativity began flowing at Unique" - This sounds a bit flowery, can it be toned down a bit?
• "Titelman tapped James Taylor to add background vocals to "Back in the High Life Again", - what does "tapped" mean in this context?

"Tracking" means the early part of the recording process, laying down the instruments, each with their own track on the master tape.[1] I think it's a fine synonym for "recording".

I don't know what commitment to Fleetwood Mac, I was unable to discover, despite extensive searching. You would think the commitment would be Tango in the Night which started recording in November 1985 in Los Angeles, just a month or so after Corsaro left Winwood's project in New York. But Corsaro is not listed in any credits for that album, and he is not mentioned in the literature as part of a rejected effort. In RE/P December 1986, Titelman says, "Steve [Winwood] and I were working at Right Track and Power Station with Jason Corsaro, but then Jason had to leave to work with Fleetwood Mac." That's all I've got.

I took out the muse part, even though it is a common expression in art. Of course the "muse" refers to the Muses which give us music. Manning Clark used the phrase a decade before this album, saying "Every writer must find his muse, the one who can take him on the walk through the paradise gardens. For some, music is their muse..."[2]

"Flowing" has been toned down.

"Tapped" means selected, designated. Definition number 5 at Merriam. Binksternet (talk) 02:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Marketing and video

• "that he should not hide behind the Hammond as in the past" - see earlier issue re: Hammond being cited
• "Instead, he sings far out in front of the band, he sings with Chaka Khan" - one of these "he sings" would be better copyedited to something else

Hammond discussed above.

I reworded the "he sings" repetition. Binksternet (talk) 05:12, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Track listing

• What is the citation for the track times? As you're doubtless aware, it's sometimes difficult to distinguish drive-by mistakes from drive-by vandalism in this area?

I added a reference to the liner notes, and tweaked the durations accordingly. AllMusic lists different times, probably adding some silence between tracks. Binksternet (talk) 03:10, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

External links

• Is linking to discogs okay? Technically, it does put up a lot of copyright violations (unless I've missed something obvious)

We are told at Wikipedia:External_links/Perennial_websites#Discogs that Discogs may be used as an external link if there's something particularly useful to be obtained which is unavailable elsewhere. One thing it offers is a link to Ron Weisner's various works, which Wikipedia does not have. And it does a much better job of showing which countries had the album released in them. Binksternet (talk) 23:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Summary

There are a couple of issues, but none are major and most are easily addressable. I'll put the review on hold pending improvements. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:03, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, Ritchie333, the easy stuff is done. What's left are questions about whether Winwood's personal life is appropriate, about the way to convey the fall season, and where to put Chaka Khan's photo. Binksternet (talk) 05:29, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I would suggest the following :

• For the personal life, maybe just trim it down to something like "The album was released during significant changes in Winwood's personal life, including divorce and subsequent marriage to American Eugenia Crafton."
• For the "fall season", I think we can go with "late 1984". Technically winter doesn't start until 21 December, right at the end. Later on in the source cited, Jennings says "Then I went back to California, and it was a year, I guess, before he went in the studio, sometime in '85" which ties in with this.
• For the Chaka Khan photo, I'm not sure. The only thing I can suggest is swapping it for the quote box from Russ Titelman, which talks about the preamble and the start of the studio sessions. What do you think? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:34, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

These changes may address your concerns. Binksternet (talk) 18:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I think all my concerns are addressed, so I'll pass the review now. Well done. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:10, 30 July 2020 (UTC)