Talk:Axiom (computer algebra system)

(random heading)

(please inseart headings for easier navigation! Said: Rursus (☻) 10:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC))

Note about software forks change: There was a recent discussion on the Fricas mailing list that involved both lead developers from the Fricas and Open-Axiom projects. They both agreed that they should be exporting their project to Sage under their own project name, not the Axiom name.

The projects have been separate for over a year and they have diverged to the point where they will never re-unite.

It is an important fact for those projects that they started as Axiom forks but it is no longer the most important information about the Axiom project. Thus the fork information is available (see the bottom of the page) but it is not a mainline fact of the Axiom project that Axiom users care about. The user base of the 3 projects appears to be disjoint and there is a distinct lack of cooperation with Axiom by the forks.

Fricas has reached a point where it can stand on its own. It has an active developer base. They can set up their own wikipedia page. I tried to set up such a page but it was rejected. I do not know why.

In any case, this page will be updated with every new Axiom release. Axiom is released on a 2 month cycle so this page will be used to track changes that are important to users of Axiom.

If you feel the need to advertise Fricas and Open-Axiom, set up pages for those projects and update the Software Forks links at the bottom of the page.

Daly (talk) 05:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)Tim Daly (Axiom Lead Developer)

You wrote, "Thus the fork information is available (see the bottom of the page) but it is not a mainline fact of the Axiom project that Axiom users care about." That statement is factually incorrect. For an example, I'm an Axiom user and I care about this information. As well, it's relevant to Axiom's history. I also notice that in the "Comparison of computer algebra systems" article, you're putting inappropriate information in the note box while deleting the previous information that was there. Such minutia as a video being available can be noted in the Axiom article. Furthermore, the manner in which the video information was written is by itself defective. Rather than tell people that a video is available and to do a search for it, the felicitous way to convey such information is to provide a link directly to the video, such as in an endnote. As well, you therein capitalize "Information Video," which isn't correct English orthography. For the foregoing reasons, I'm reverting the aforesaid changes by you.--74.4.222.208 (talk) 18:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Daly, you were told above why your edits are inappropriate. Please refrain from redoing your aforesaid edits. Such actions by you are now delving into the territory of vandalism.--74.4.222.208 (talk) 19:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Let it be noted here that Dely has ignored the foregoing and continues to delete the information discussed above.--74.4.222.208 (talk) 19:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

If you are an Axiom user, please identify yourself. If you are an Axiom user then you know who I am and that I've been the lead on this project since it was started. This page is being used to track information related to the project and will be updated on an ongoing basis.

The fact that Axiom forked has had NO effect on the Axiom project or its goals. It is not of any interest to Axiom users in the future. And the lead developers of the forks have agreed to use their own project names.

The fork information is available on the page already (see the bottom on the Axiom page) and the fork information is available in the Fricas and OpenAxiom comment columns. The paragraph is redundant.

Please be an adult about this. Identify yourself and contact me by email so we can agree.

Daly (talk) 20:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)Tim

I'm the lead developer on the Axiom project and I clearly know the history and current status of the project.

I'm unsure who you are. Please identify yourself. You are trying to create controversy where there is none and I would like to understand your motive.

If you wish to keep to "the facts" it is perfectly clear that Axiom, FriCAS, and OpenAxiom do not share:

 (1) codebase (check the Makefiles or directory contents)
 (2) websites (check the sourceforge website)
 (3) project leads (Axiom==Tim, FriCAS==Waldek, OpenAxiom==Gaby)
 (4) philosophy (Axiom has a 30 year horizon, FriCAS tries to
                 compete with Mathematica)
 (5) target audience (Axiom is linux only, the others target Windows, etc)
 (6) bug lists (Each project maintains its own bug lists)
 (7) features (Axiom features Firefox-based help, FriCAS features easier
               algebra builds)
 (8) direction (Axiom targets documentation, OpenAxiom targets Boot changes)

In fact, the projects have nothing in common but the fact that FriCAS and OpenAxiom copied the Axiom code this summer. Given that the above eight differences cover everything it could mean to "be a software project" it is clear that they are not the same thing.

In order to address your concerns I'll create Wikipedia pages for FriCAS and OpenAxiom and move your commentary to those pages.

Tim Daly (Axiom Lead Developer) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.235.192 (talk) 23:27, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I Just wanted to add that open-axiom and fricas aren't Linux-only, they compile and run on FreeBSD just fine. -- Cghost (talk) 18:34, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Update: I have created 2 pages: FriCAS and OpenAxiom and they are linked from this page under "Related Projects". I'm sure my initial description does not do justice to those projects. Feel free to edit them.

I should note that the Wikipedia rules specifically prohibit the use of these pages for controvery. These 2 new pages should properly address the separation of concerns.

Tim Daly (Axiom Lead Developer) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TImPDaly (talk • contribs) 00:36, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Axiom

The Axiom project has been free and open for the since 2001. I have been the lead developer on the project for the whole time. The official Axiom website homepage is http://axiom.axiom-developer.org. The code is hosted at http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/axiom and at http://sourceforge.net/projects/axiom.

Tim Daly (Axiom Lead Developer) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.235.192 (talk) 08:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried to incorporate the forks. I hope to satisfy also Tim Daly with this compromise, since I think it's quite misleading to mention only his project under the name "axiom".

I was unable to put both websites (Tim's own, together with the website that promotes all three variants) into the infobox. Help appreciated. Mantepse (talk) 12:31, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The Axiom project is NOT the same project as Fricas or OpenAxiom. They have different codebases, different goals, different sourceforge accounts, and different lead developers. The projects are diverging. The appropriate edit would be to create Fricas and OpenAxiom entries in Wikipedia. This is what was done for the CMUCL/SBCL fork. There are two different wikipedia pages, one for each project. The same thing should happen for the Fricas and OpenAxiom projects. Please do not delete the Axiom homepage link.

Tim Daly —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.199.30.31 (talk) 20:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Forks

I'm not sure whether this article should mention that axiom currently really consists of three projects (axiom, open-axiom and fricas), differing in goals and ways how to achieve them. For the user, there is only little difference, since bug fixes are shared, and features of one implementation are ported to the other without much difficulty. Mantepse (talk) 07:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

External Links

Somebody added a link to the Open-Axiom Homepage. I think that this is misleading, therefore I reverted the change. The wiki Axiom Homepage hosts information for the whole family of axiom implementations, and is a safe resource, I'd say. Mantepse (talk) 07:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Risch algorith implementation.

Maybe it's good to say a few more words about Risch algorith implementation in Axiom. As far as I understand, the main difference between Axiom and other products is that the Asiom's "no" is fair (one may be sure that the input's antiderivative, if exist, can be written using algebraic functions). Probably it's a good idea to give samples with answers "no" and "error". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gaz v pol (talk • contribs) 18:40, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

When I designed the page I wanted to keep things concise, so I only mentioned this feature. If you want to put in examples, you can take the one from [Risch algorithm], and, as a "failed" example,

(1) -> integrate(exp(x^2), x)

           x     2
         ++    %L
   (1)   |   %e   d%L
        ++
                                          Type: Union(Expression Integer,...)

Especially in the FriCAS fork (which I am mainly working for), there are some other features not found in any other CAS, but I didn't want to make the page into an advertisement. I must admit that I'm also very unhappy that Tim Daly decided that his project is the only rightful bearer of the name Axiom (and therefore modified webpage etc.), so I won't put much more effort into this page, unless this changes. A more neutral mind would be needed to improve the page, I guess. Mantepse (talk) 10:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Free or semi-free?

This page describes Axiom as free but if you follow the link to Aldor_programming_language that is described as "semi-free". I don't understand the details of the Aldor license but surely these two pages should agree? Galoisgroupie (talk) 15:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Scratchpad redirect

Scratchpad shouldn't redirect to this article, because:

1. it's an obsolete name,
2. there's a text editor named Scratchpad,
3. there's a Scratchpad RAM article,

Unless there are serious objections, I'll instead make a disambiguation page at Scratchpad. Axiom is interesting enough, but its real name is Axiom. Said: Rursus (☻) 10:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

By the way, does "scratchpad" mean anything specific in English? (I'm a swede), then maybe perhaps possibly there should be an article on scratchpads? Said: Rursus (☻) 10:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Scratchpad redirect

I have no problem with changing the Scratchpad link to other uses. Scratchpad, in American English, means a pad of papers used for writing notes. Richard Jenks started the Scratchpad project at IBM in 1971. It later became Scratchpad II. The commercial version became Axiom. The name Scratchpad is only of historical interest. All project related work goes under the name "Axiom".

Daly (talk) 06:50, 6 April 2009 (UTC)(Tim Daly, Axiom Lead Developer)

Why and wherefore?

This article reports facts but does not explain e.g. why Axiom was "withdrawn from the market". The reason why was because the Axiom project was a noble effort but in the end a failure in design. Incorrect results have been obtained with Axiom because one of its major design flaws is putting the burden of defining the so-called "domain of computation" almost entirely on the user, a human being who can make mistakes. It was a stepping stone to other things like Aldor but it should be emphasized that "Axiom" turned out to be only a transitory period after all.TonyMath (talk) 09:22, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

On the subject of Aldor itself, the discussion page for its site shows that it will be labeled "discontinued" software. The same should apply to Axiom if the software cannot be downloaded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyMath (talk • contribs) 22:43, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Axiom can be downloaded, just as Aldor can.--Jamie Michelle (talk) 03:01, 23 October 2010 (UTC)