Talk:Avatar: The Last Airbender/Archive 6

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Character section

Since the FAC still has comments on the character section that have not been addressed, and there was some support in the prior discussion for improving this section, I'd like people to state their proposals here. FrozenPurpleCube 00:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• This is what I think.
  1. Get some sources. Right now it's unsourced. That needs to be fixed regardless of what you think of the rest.
  2. Shorten it. Two paragraphs for each major character is a bit much. Three in some cases is a bit excessive.

I would consider these changes to be the most important, but if you have other ideas, please share them. FrozenPurpleCube 00:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Both sound logical, although I'd do 2 before 1, just so nobody wastes time digging up sources for stuff that's going to be removed anyway.

As for sourcing, there IS precedent for TV show articles using the show in general as a source. Things like character traits and what-not are hard to cite to a single episode.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, I don't disagree that much of the material can be sourced directly to the show(and often enough they are in the main articles on the characters). In terms of shortening though, the longest are Iroh's and Toph's. I'd suggest removing the last paragraph for both of them. More so for Toph since it's unsourced at the moment. FrozenPurpleCube 00:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to try to shorten now, I'm not good at references though. -Dylan0513 01:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I made it so each description is 2 paragraphs. Any other clean up needed? -Dylan0513 01:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I cleaned up a lot more, it looks pretty good now. -Dylan0513 01:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, there are still some entries lacking sources, and I'd check awkward sentences like "He is as pained by his nephew's past as Zuko is, and hates that his nephew must suffer as he does." for rewriting. A simpler sentence like "He is troubled by his nephew's anguish from being exiled" would be much better. FrozenPurpleCube 03:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I applaud whoever cut down the character descriptions. It looks much cleaner and takes up less room. (Ghostexorcist 15:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC))

It was me, H2P, I think I put the break on for too long. 24.165.122.145 09:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Where's the Avatar Logo.gif??

Hey people, i want to know why they've removed the gif picture i uploaded. its really nice!! Please tell me why. I'll upload it again. remove it after letting me know why u r removing it. I'm also a wikipedian Contributor!! and i deserve the same right you hold as wikipedians. i uploaded the gif. file for its own decorative and informative purpose, and i dont see any reason why it should be replaced. it sure looks better than the present one ofcux.. and its a edited clip from the original movie and not by any chance a copy righted work. thnx for ur precious time.. i think i deserve an answer for this.. soon.. --Glacious 09:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why it was removed. Someone above said it was slow for them. And we're going for FA status here, so please add a fair use rationale to the gif asap. -Dylan0513 12:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, first off, it is absolutely based on a copyrighted work, even though you converted it to a .gif, you used the image files of the show for the purpose. As such, it is a derivative work, so I do not know if that falls under fair use rationale, however, there were apparently some technical issues viewing the animated files, thus it may not be an important question anyway. If people are having trouble viewing it, for whatever reason, it probably doesn't need to be used until that is dealt with. FrozenPurpleCube 14:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, as I noted above, the graphic slowed me down, both on IE and Firefox (tested on multiple computers, Glacious). The ultimate answer, however, is "Does it add to the encyclopediac nature of the article?" I believe the answer here is "No." The plain logo itself is sufficient. --Snicker^|¥°^€| 16:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

but it gives a better image to the article

HI, well yeah u seem to have a point there, but i believe it gives the article much more naturality and plus all that it increases the image of this article. however i am sorry if this caused any difficulties to some users, but i use both I.E and Fire Fox PLUS Opera for my work purpose and i havent had any problems yet. it might seem a little slow when it loads but once it is loaded in a matter of sec, it looks perfect. by the way hav a look at Spider-Man 3. its also GIF but they dont complain over it like you guys do. and i dun even kno who loaded it. thnx anyways and i am waiting for a much reasonable explanation... Glacious 11:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

That spiderman gif doesn't work for me. All I see is a blank space with a red "X" in the upper corner. So not everyone can see these things. (Ghostexorcist 11:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC))

I couldn't see it either, which is weird because I know I used to be able to. Anyway, on the subject of gif images as the main image, it makes the article itself become, well, tacky. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 16:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

There are copyright issues, as well. An animated gif is not one screenshot, but many of them acting as frames. That really strains the fair use guidelines.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Spiderman is also red-x for me too. The Avatar gif loads slowly for me on Opera, Firefox, IE, and Netscape. The image doesn't really add anything new in my opinion too. The image is also very choppy in between frames, and this also makes it awkward... --Whydoit ^{(Why...do it?)} 22:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Official Movie

As you may or may not be aware, M. Night Shyamalan and Paramount are working together to create a live-action adaption feature film for Avatar. Really-

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117956950.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&nid=2564

http://filmick.blogspot.com/2007/01/shyamalan-bending-air-toon-style.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.163.198.62 (talk) 10:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

• I just read that on ASN...Are we allowed to add that to this page?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.122.69.71 (talk • contribs).

If they can't name it Avatar, I think it might be a while before anything actually happens. Without that name, Nickelodeon will lose money in the marketing process. I also can't see this show being turned into a movie, I don't think it would work out well. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 21:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, but can it be called Avatar: The Last Airbender, XD. Shyamalan will find some way around it. -Dylan0513 21:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it can, the colon in the title may allow Fox to stop the name as it owns the rights to Avatar with a colon making it seem like a sequel to Fox's movie, in which case Paramount would be able to get free ticket sales from Fox's viewers who don't know any better. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 21:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, then take out the colon. Shyamalan has to know what he's doing to take this and know that there's another Avatar movie coming out. Another thing: Film Ick say a 2009 release. If there were only 3 seasons, the show would lose it's hype by then. I think we're looking at 4+ seasons. -Dylan0513 21:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

You realize there is a Transformers and TMNT movie coming out right? H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 05:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This is different. Those were hits for a while. Avatar is relatively new and hasn't reached that level yet. -Dylan0513 11:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

WHo said it was specifficaly about Aang, there are so many other avatar's they ccould continue the sieres, but with diffrent avatars and 100s of years apartThe Placebo Effect 17:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Season 3, but when?

I know hardly anything about the third season of avatar but when is it going to be released on television. I am desperate to find out what happens with aang and zuko. Did i mention the fire lord. We need more facts about the third season to display on here. I know almost everyone are dieing to see what happens next. Any idea's of what may become of BOOK 3: fire. I want opinions or facts from the fans like me.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.18.11 (talk • contribs).

I heard March or April somewhere, but I can't remember where that was. FrozenPurpleCube 20:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but this ain't no forum. No but seriously any discussion that occurs here is related to the organization of the Avatar page. I'd recommend visiting the following sites and their forums for that kinda stuff- http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/index.php

http://www.musogato.com/avatar

http://www.tv.com/avatar-the-last-airbender/show/28841/summary.html

However, according to the person in charge of the avHTTP/1.1 302 Found Location: http://localhost:1025/15724/badcontent.html Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 188 Connection: close

<html><head><title>Page has moved found</title></head><body>The page has moved. Please <a href="http://localhost:1025/15724/badcontent.html">click here</a> for the new page.</body></html>atar portion of tv.com (who has inside source which as of yet have never proved wrong) they're currently in production of the first episode of season three and won't be done with that alone until somewhere around April. ~66.250.190.113 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Pooldude has an inside source and season 3 will be late April or early May. -Dylan0513 21:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

• well i think we can make an exception for this forum talk part cus its upbasis matter and it does have to do with Avatar potential. Besides, season 3 may have not began becuase the actor who played the UNCLE had died not to long ago. They probably need to find a replacement or just disclude him from the show. And yes that would be a real shame.

In the third season Aang will go to the Fire Nation, that where Aang will see what has happened to them. A hundred years of war is not good for any nation, so it is assumable that the Fire Nation is destroying itself. With all of the Fire Nations Resources going to the war the economy is getting bad much like Germany after WWI. we have only seen the royal palace which doesn't show what real life in the Fire Nation is like.-Iroh18

On TVrage.com it says the next season will be released March 2 but i'm not to sure if thats really the date. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AvatarDude360 (talk • contribs) 00:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

No, it is not. Please stop suggesting it is. Season 3 will premier in late April or early May. -[[User:Dylan0HTTP/1.1 302 Found

Location: http://localhost:1025/26500/badcontent.html Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 188 Connection: close

<html><head><title>Page has moved found</title></head><body>The page has moved. Please <a href="http://localhost:1025/26500/badcontent.html">click here</a> for the new page.</body></html>513|Dylan0513]] 00:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oh, and the name of episode 3 of season 3 reveled by pooldude is "The Painted Lady." Now we have that and episode 4, "Sokka's Master." Interesting... And again, these do not belong on the episode list until properly sourced. -Dylan0513 00:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The Painted Lady? Sounds...strange. People don't normally seem to be painted in Avatar. I hope this dosent bring on a whole string of edits adding that to the episode list. Bagpipeturtle 00:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

When I said Sokka's Master it didn't, so probably not. Painted Lady probably will represent something or will be an expression or something. It seems figurative to me. -Dylan0513

• It's possible that 'Sokka's Master' will be the episode that Sokka decides to learn waerbending. I also heard that the Fire Nation is similar to North Korea. For example, there seems to be propoganda everywhere, most of the countries money goes to the military, the government keeps close watch on all its citizens, and it is completely secretive. - Robert25

D'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh! Sokka will not learn waterbending!!! It would ruin his character! The fire nation thing is possible though... -Dylan0513 02:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm just saying that the Fire Nation is a dirt poor nation that does nothing but worring about imperialism and world domination. That seems to be a family trait in all Fire Lords. -Robert25

Hmm, I don't know. I just don't see them spending that much time in the fire nation about the way of life in the fire nation. -Dylan0513 02:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

if the Fire Nation is going through depression it could cause the citizens to hate the Fire Lord and take any chance they get to dethrone him. -User:Iroh18

• In North Korea, almost 95% of the population is starving because of their greedy government. Although they are in a dire position, they still see Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong-Il as their great leaders and sole providers. It is very possible the same thing is happening in the Fire Nation. -Robert25

Yes, Mrach 2nd most likely, atleast its earliest for that season. Besides, everyone on youtube.com had already told me that it comes out on march 2. Info comes from the following sites. TV.rage.com, IMDB, Upbasis users , and more. And yes, in sokka's master, sokka does have something to do with waterbending but i'm not to sure what though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.18.11 (talk) 20:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

IMDB is the most unreliable information source I've ever seen. Upbasis isn't any better. YouTube is not exactly a prime source for information. Unless you have documented proof from Nickeldeon you've got nothing. And please, all the speculation, take it somewhere else. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 21:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Upbasis, is one of the sources that conclude those info grats. So pretty much theyre you are wrong. IMBD is the official movie and television site And, On youtube, i checked some of those avatar movies and everyone suspense spreads, so people keep posting video responses saying It will be released march 2, and I'm not saying it absolutely will, i'm just saying thats one of the most very possible dates. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.18.11 (talk) 22:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

i'v also been given word that the trailer should be coming soon, but that much is obvious. lol. Well season 3 is bringing out a lot of mystery and suspense which is why people are argueing like you and i, but whoever is right, even if its you, i will admit you are a better fan then me, i just love watching the show. And i'm sure you do to. I just want to give what i can here.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.18.11 (talk • contribs)

There is that big worldwide game or whatever. Avatar: Escape from the Spirit World. I saw a commercial for it when I was watching Avatar today, it says it's coming in February. Some internet news thing said that it's based on clue from the new episodes aired every Saturday (?). I don't know how reliable that news source is, but whatever. It would kind of be hard to do a puzzle in February about unaired episodes. I'll go try and find a link to the place. Bagpipeturtle 22:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/columnists/aaron_barnhart/16447278.htm?source=rss&channel=kansascity_aaron_barnhart scroll down to 'the watch list'. Bagpipeturtle 23:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Cancelled?

The Crossroads of destiny episode upset a lot of fans because of the first preview of the episode showing Zuko and Katara talking.Some of the fans thought that Zuko was going to be on their side, but since Mike and Bryan wrote them trying to kill each other, it probably lost fans. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.176.109.182 (talk) 16:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

Um... yeah. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 22:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

• well a lot of people prefer the dark side than the light side. lol. Besides, Zuco dosnt totally turn eveil. Look closely at him in the end of the episode. His line, I betrayed uncle, what have i done

Remember: Wikipedia is not a forum. But... maybe the series has lost fans, but others remains =P.
--Diego · ^{(talk· =P)} · _{(cont · =P)} I'm "en-3", remember 01:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The series gained so many fans from the finale and it is way more popular now than ever. The finale may have been one of the greatest episodes in animation history and definitely in Avatar. Just because things don't go right, doesn't mean it's bad. -Dylan0513 02:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Greatest? Nah. Hell not even the greatest of Avatar. But Avatar did not lose fans because of one episode. Quitting a show that you've been a fan of simply because of one episode, that's dumb. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 04:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, most people that watched the season finale are probably going to want to tune in to find out what the hell is going to happen now that the Fire Nation has pretty much conquered the world. And about losing fans because Zuko and Katara never got together, complete B**ls**t. Zuko and Katara getting together was about as likley as Aang and Azula getting together.:) - Robert25

Dear God. Please, please please please, do not start a shipping debate.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

You know, after all of that happened in the finale, it would be carrer suicide. Imagine all the hate mail they'd get if they just quit. If anything, they gained fans. Momoroxmysoxoff 22:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

i agree. Beside's, everyone knows the season finalle is going to gain more fans because the next season, Aang learns to fire bend, the relationship between aang and katara will be complete, Fire Lord ozui will appear in Fighting, sokka will learn how to water bend in the episode called sokk'as master and zucko can still change his ways and help the avatar, maybe even teach him fire bending.

...I'm seriously tempted to delete that cruft. Y BCZ 01:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

what do you mean. Check the Upbasis sites and even http://www.tv.com/avatar-the-last-airbender/show/28841/summary.html.

Except that tv.com has proven to not be entirely reliable in the past. Plus...that thing about Sokka Waterbending was submitted by some random fan. Come on... As for Zuko, and Katara and Aang, that's speculation. Now enough of this, this page is not a forum. Y BCZ 03:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Stop there. No more bad mouthing Tv.com based on things that aren't true. The only thing pooldude has is Sokka's Master and that's it. Nothing else. -Dylan0513 04:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

....Youch. Bit defensive, aren't we?--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 04:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course he's defensive Fyre, we all figured out a long time ago that Dylan was in bed with Pooldude. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 06:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

TV.com is almost like Wikipedia anyways. Users submit information, the same way we submit information here. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{talk • contribs}} 04:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Lol, first, I don't even know him, XD. I have to have some place I can rely on to have info in this very, very strange Avatar community. And again, the big difference between Wiki and Tv.com is that editors have to approve of information. And I can't believe I'm sticking up for Tv.com: I hate Cnett, and I'm forum banned there, xD! -Dylan0513 12:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• with the upbasis sites still On the go, sokka's master will have something tyo do with water bending. And TV.com had those posts from some of the makers of avatar just so you know. Go to its speciel page.

  If Sokka becomes a Waterbender I will quit watching this show, because that has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Not only would it ruin Sokka's character and place on the team, it goes against everything previously stated about bending ability. I'm hoping the writers aren't that stupid, but then again they did do a 180 with Zuko at the end of the season. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 19:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

... and that was brilliant with Zuko. And just ignore the other guy. Nobody has said Sokka will do any bending. -Dylan0513 20:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• • • well upbasis does have only that one episodes clarified. Dude, the episode may be about sokka thinking that he may be waterbending but finds out it was just his imagination and overeation. Although, it would be funny to see sokka waterbend. I can imagine him failing by the 100th time. Check the special page rep. Sok'as master is the name of one episode, the 3rd episode. It does have to do with sokka and waterbending. Remember the boomerang he has and its history. That to has something to do with waterbending. Plus there was a carving on it i think he discovers its true meaning. Even if he does learn it or not, Just enjoy the show. I'm am pleased they named one of the episodes already. But didnt the actor who played uncle die? Are they gonna find a replacement or just put him out of the show or just give him no lines and main parts? well, i still hope we can find more about sokka in the third episode.

I don't care about that. Pooldude hasn't said anything about the episode other than the name and I will tell you when he does. -Dylan0513 21:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you even read these articles? A person has been found for Uncle, you heard his voice already in Season 2. Also, when did it ever say anything about Sokka's boomerang having something to do with Waterbending? H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 21:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• not considerably, no, but these were the key point. Kind of like sneek peeks to new shows and seasons. And i found out that Mako is the man who played uncle. Its a shame he died. He was one of my favorite characters. Not to mention how funny he was. I hope they dont cancel it for that reason. He plays some pretty important parts in the series.

  You're going to make me throw my head into a wall! When people post a new message READ IT! H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 21:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

  • chill out, i just posted at the wrong point. I think when we get clear episode names and descriptions, we can post it to the episode list. Just keep a look out for the upbasis sites, and no it said mako played in both seasons. But these days they can find actors that sound like the originals in no time. lol.

  Mako's replacement was in the second season. You clearly hear his voice in Tales of Iroh. We also will not be using TV.com as a source for episodes as we've already decided long ago that no official page will be made until Nick.com or TVGuide (or we did use AnimeNation once due to a pre-viewing) gives us it's air date and name. H2P ^{(Yell at me for what I've done)} 21:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It was AnimationInsider H2P. And it was used twice I think for sets of episodes it announced. -Dylan0513 23:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• • • General "Uncle" Iroh is a fictional character voiced by Mako (in the first and second seasons) on the Nickelodeon animated television series Avatar: The Last Airbender.- look on his page on this site.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.18.11 (talk • contribs)

We all know that, what's your point? --Herald Alberich 23:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

General "Uncle" Iroh is a fictional character voiced by Mako (in the first and SECOND SEASON) on the Nickelodeon animated television series Avatar: The Last Airbender.- look on his page on this site.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.18.11 (talk • contribs) - SECOND SEASON

For the most part, yeah, Mako does do Iroh in season two, but there are parts in some of the latter episodes that are pretty clearly someone else.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• well then they did a pretty good job finding a replacement. lol.

References

Since when is it ok to use other Wikipedia pages as a citeable reference? That is completely unacceptable. That is the equivalent of someone publishing an [original research] document and then citing it as fact in another [original research] paper. Wikipedia can't be cited, that is the whole reason why everything must be externally cited.

Now then, if something from an episode needs to be cited then here:

http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/transcripts.php - Episode transcripts

Use the transcripts, they are the only freely available non-Wikipedia source of verifiable episode content. So cite the appropriate transcript page instead of the corresponding Wikipedia page when you reference an episode.

I will not be the one who will go and modify all the references. I will, however, be the one who deletes all those inappropriate internal references, as that is just terrible article writing. I will allow for time though before I delete them. In fact I will allow a lot of time since there are a lot of references, just make sure it gets done. Sorry to be a jerk, but it's better to have no reference than a possibly falsified one (which is what EVERY Wikipedia article is). Sage of Ice 02:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That's not entirely accurate, I'm afraid. All one has to do to cite an episode is to use template:cite episode. When you use that, you aren't citing the article on the episode, but the episode itself, which is acceptable. If you think that's wrong, maybe you should nominate that template for deletion, but as long as it exists its perfectly valid to use.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 05:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)