Talk:Automotive industry in New Zealand

Lead

Good work putting this article together. Very comprehensive. If I may make a suggestion for improvement, the most obvious one would be the lead, which is supposed to summarise the main points of the article. It should be a free-standing piece; by just reading the lead, you'd glean the main points of the article. It should not contain content that is not also in the body of the article itself. Schwede66 17:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Schwede, I'll get on to it shortly NealeFamily (talk) 23:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Bits and pieces

I've never been involved in the industry. I do not know all the answers. I thought some things in your article were not quite accurate. I may well be wrong but I thought if I told you about them I would get better informed.

• Import restrictions 1935 Labour government. Favourable tariffs for local assembly a different matter I'll do some research on Papers Past soon. GM and Ford and Chrysler cars came from Canada because of Imperial Preference, Chrysler from UK for the same reason. I have to sort out when Imperial Preference came in but I suspect around 1916. Only GM and Ford put up their own plants (in Petone) the rest remained with the local importers (am I right?)
• to talk of a local manufacturing industry is absurd. The whole country's population, not always prosperous, was less than very many cities around the world (not just the big ones). Even in Australia I think the big manufacturers (after the first burst of enthusiasm) never made more than dumbed down versions of their best sellers and continued to make obsolete models long after they were no longer made anywhere else (but maybe Brazil?)
• The flood of used imports from Japan began in the late 80s.
• Anglo-American. American and British? I realise you want to separate out from Japan
• Todd Motors - I hope you will be comfortable with my amendment. Short on citations but then so was its predecessor.
• At least until the 1970s the Retail Motor Trade Association (I think) published an annual report that listed the quantities and values of each brand imported / assembled that year and back to the beginning of time. Around 20 years ago I tried really hard to find a copy — to no avail.

Pleased to discuss any of these things and more. Eddaido (talk) 02:11, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Historical production by year

This diagram shows or I think shows the number of vehicles assembled each year in NZ. It is noticeable that the numbers go a bit vague towards the end. I am unable to find (though I have a possible source coming) equivalent figures for later periods. The second diagram is because I had added to the first one the figures for registrations which are different (apparently). Can't make it all add up so now we have two schedules. Eddaido (talk) 04:12, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

A possible explanation for the two tables not matching is because one is for vehicles manufactured and the other is for those registered, there are possible timing differences - made December, sold January for example, and any vehicles exported. Two tables is the best way to present the data NealeFamily (talk) 09:11, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, true, but not a full explanation. Glad you like the second table, bit of a sledge hammer to crack a nut? I hope I will soon have NZ assembly figures which can be inserted in the new table showing the shrinkage —from a library copy of Assembly : New Zealand car production 1921-98 / Mark Webster. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 09:57, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Still on the same subject I found this which appears to be the current version of what I was referring to above when I mentioned At least until the 1970s the Retail Motor Trade Association (I think) . . . . Might be useful? Eddaido (talk) 10:01, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Assemblers

I am wondering if it might be better to list the assembly businesses in date (of starting assembly) order. At the moment there seems no particular reason for the present choice. In addition i think it would be a good idea to add to the section heading so it reads "1926 General Motors" and "1936 Ford". Is that a good idea? And why not paragraphs for each of the assembly businesses, somewhere in the text it says the maximum number was sixteen so it would not take up much more space. Eddaido (talk) 23:43, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I think it is better to stick to the assembly companies as some assembled various companies car such as Todd's who did Rootes Group, Chrysler Corporation, and Mitsubishi Motors. Ford is bit unique as initially it seemed to have been assembled by various companies until it was centralised, but that could be done under a single heading with a paragraph giving the origins. NealeFamily (talk) 01:52, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi, "Ford is bit unique as initially it seemed to have been assembled by various companies" I do not understand what you are saying! Ford Colonial Motor Co was as unique as Campbell Motor Industries, Dominion Motors (NZMC), Todds etc.

I'd be grateful if you did explain what you mean so I can have a go at getting my head around it.

Aside from that I wasn't suggesting any change to listing the assembly companies except to extend the list of assembly businesses and sort then in a logical order! I'll show you what I mean. Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 02:35, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

When I was looking through some old pre WW1 papers I found that Ford's were being assembled locally by a number of different firms rather than just one. NealeFamily (talk) 03:41, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

That's great. Please tell me where I can go look at them. Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 03:43, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast NealeFamily (talk) 03:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I guessed that much! Please may we have citations Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 03:47, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but you will need to dig for them on the site - I don't have them to hand. NealeFamily (talk) 04:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Then they can't be cited? Eddaido (talk) 04:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Here's an extract from a book about Fords in NZ: http://www.teamhutchinsonford.com/about/history/
and more about the book:

• Ford ahead : a history of The Colonial Motor Company Limited / Roger Gardner

Summary: "Ford Ahead tells the story of public listed Colonial Motor Company and many of its 33 subsidiary companies. William Black was the first coachbuilder in Wellington in 1859, his business later becoming Rouse & Hurrell Coachbuilders in 1881, and then Colonial Motor Company in 1911 - all at 89 Courtenay Place, Wellington. In 1908, Rouse & Hurrell became New Zealand distributor for Ford Motor Company. The country's first motor assembly plant was built at 89 Courtenay Place in 1922 and closed in 1936, when Ford Motor Company began vehicle assembly at Seaview in the Hutt Valley. CMC was allowed to keep many of its subsidiary interests, and the partnership with Ford is one of the longest in motoring history."--Book flap.

Do you think this might be the news item that gave you the multiple assembly plants idea because they are all ColMoCo. Eddaido (talk) 09:20, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

News item, The Herald, 30 January 1926, Page 10

"MASS ASSEMBLY. Interest in schemes which will result in still cheaper automobiles has been aroused by General Motors (N.Z.) Ltd's project to assemble Buick, Chevrolet, Oakland and Oldsmobile cars at Petone. Smce tho General Motors Corporation is just producing yet another cheap light six, this also will be added to the line. The advantages of mass assembly of cars in New Zealand have been fully exploited by the Colonial Motor Company in the handling of Ford cars. This company is operating assembling plants at Auckland, Wellington and 'Timaru. The cars are imported completely knocked down. The pressings for tho bodies are nested in individual crates and the riveting is done by compressed air. The Auckland plant employs 200 bands. The cars are built up, painted, and upholstered. The prol cess of completing a car in about 40 min- I utes is worth watching. An output of 51 cars a day is tho record of the Auckland plant. Tho average is about 27 cars a day."

Perhaps c.k.d. packs (completely knocked down into packs) might be the distinguishing feature between ColMoCo, GM etc and previous "assembly" plants where substantial portions would arrive ready assembled?

News item DUTIES TO BE RAISED. New Zealand Herald, Volume LXIV, Issue 19741, 14 September 1927, Page 13

"Motor vehicles, n.e.i.—A new clause has been added to the old tariff to provide that where such motor vehicles are imported with unassembled or completely knocked down bodies suited or designed for carrying passengers the body duty shall be 5 p.c. under the British prefential tariff and 10 p.c. under the general tariff on any such vehicle, inclusive of the unassembled body. Where such motor vehicles are imported having bodies suitable for carrying passengers and the value for duty exceeds £200 the body duty under the general tariff shall be 15 p.c. on £200 and 10 p.c. on the remainder, compared with 15 p.c. and 7½ p.c. under the old tariff. There are no other alterations in the duties."

NEW ASSEMBLING PLANT. Auckland Star, Volume LX, Issue 124, 28 May 1929, Page 19 — not CKD?

"In five months' time, Auckland will have another motor asembling plant. The Todd Motor Company have bought a section in Freeman's Bay where they propose to build an assembling factory. The new premises will have a frontage of 140 ft to Napier Street and a depth of 200 ft. The construction' has been planned along lavish, lines. All the modern methods of car assembly will be used, including electric cranes. The storage capacity of the new factory will be 250 cars, and it is expected that the output will be between 100 and 140 cars a month."

Eddaido (talk) 11:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Zealandia

In Graham Vercoes book The Golden Era of New Zealand Motor Racing he refers to Noel Oates having made New Zealand earliest car called the Zealandia. The Hawkes Bay Herald of 16 January 1901 described the car as having been imported from England and therefore it was not NZ made. NealeFamily (talk) 01:56, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

If you look in this article about Auckland's first motor car by someone with many letters after his name he refers to a car imported by Nicky (nickname for Noel?) Oates of Christchurch's Zealandia Cycle works in 1900 and it was an English Raglan now in Southwards Museum. I wonder if Nicky Oates made something before that. Certainly I was doubtful whether or not to mention Oates in this article because he does get several mentions in the papers about very early cars. I will have another look at PapersPast as soon as I can it may not have been available when the article was written (or Vercoe was writing). Eddaido (talk) 02:32, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Here's about Charles Nicholas Oates died 1938 aged 85 including his photo and about his cycle business. Here's about his car he brought back to NZ in October 1900. No mention of his building one beforehand. Eddaido (talk) 07:18, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

The Oates did not seem to follow through on his idea of making motor cars in New Zealand. I searched Papers Past fairly thoroughly for anything useful, but I did find them starting in the industry in 1904 Oates car company They were advertising as the agent for Rambler in April 1904 and in 1905 they were advertising Minerva's for sale. Rambler Minerva advert His car in 1901 was an English made Star and its [photo] matches the 1898 version NealeFamily (talk) 00:46, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

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