Talk:Atreus

Merger

The merger with the House of Atreus article on 9 July was a good idea, but I wasn't watching the page back then, and now I can't tell where certain additions came from. There are several apparent quotes with no attribution, set off by single quotation marks. Can anyone provide a source? SteveG23 13:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Final section about the next generation

This seems out of place here. Atreus is not even mentioned in the text. The only reason I have not deleted it is that I would wish to check that we are not losing material - i.e. I hope the stuff is duplicated in more relevant articles, but I haven't time right now. Gondooley (talk) 12:57, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Plato

It's hard to see why this section is here. A quotation without any context or explanation is useless. --Akhilleus (talk) 19:47, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

It's only virtue is that it is better than Wikkikid's earlier version featuring Velikovsky. If we had a list of all Ancient mentions of Atreus it could be included, but this seems too trivial for words. dougweller (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I took the Plato section out. I can't help but feel that it was more relevant than the following sections about Dune and the Kennedy family... --Akhilleus (talk) 03:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Questions and comments

1. "The gods brought Pelops back to life, replacing the bone in his shoulder with a bit of ivory, thus marking the family forever afterwards."

"a bit of" doesn't really sound too good.

2. "Agamemnon's only son, Orestes, was quite young when his mother killed his father. He was sent into exile. In some versions he was sent away by Clytemnestra to avoid having him present during the murder of Agamemnon; in others Electra herself rescued the infant Orestes and sent him away to protect him from their mother."

What are the sources for these versions?

3. 'It was a son's duty to kill his father's murderers, a duty that came before all others. But a son who killed his mother was abhorrent to gods and to men.'

It's not clear if the quotation should be delimited by double or single quotes.

5. "The first English language translation in 1777 contributed greatly to the development of the Romantic period in literature."

Translation of what?

ICE77 (talk) 07:16, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

South Park reference

As far as I can tell there is no evidence that the plot of the South Park episode Scott Tenorman Must Die is actually a reference to the myth of Atreus. There are obvious similarities in the two plots, but there are no other direct references that I know of in the episode. If this statement is to be included on this page it needs to have a cited source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakepapp (talk • contribs) 20:09, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Jean Paul Sartre play 'The Flies'

A reworking of the myth by Sartre puts an existential spin on Orestes as he struggles with the Furies after the matricide. A link might be appropriate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flies — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.52.96.29 (talk) 18:29, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

House of Blood

Another point of view of the criticism of the House of Atreus is well known as the House of Blood since its many deaths many plots among family members for power from Tantalus to Orestes.

Later influence section

It starts with "The first English language translation in 1777 contributed greatly to the development of the Romantic period in literature." but there is no indication of what translation if refers to. Homer, the Roman authors, other sources? 86.161.29.92 (talk) 23:37, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Replace Family Tree with template

I propose that we replace the graphic showing the Family Tree with {{Chart}} templates. I'll start to prototype the change on my user drafts. - DutchTreat (talk) 10:27, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Proposed replacement:

Tantalus

Pelops

Hippodamia

Thyestes

Atreus

Aerope (disputed)

Aegisthus

Agamemnon

Clytaemnestra

Menelaus

Helen

Iphigeneia

Electra

Orestes

Added the Aerope, wife of Atreus and swapped the two sons, Agamemnon and Menelaus, to allow for the bottom row to be centered. Used this source: Johnston, Ian. "The House of Atreus: A Note on the Mythological Background to the Oresteia". Archived from the original on 2013-03-26. -- DutchTreat (talk) 10:51, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Aerope is not always the mother of, nor is Atreus always the father of, Agamemnon and Menelaus, see Aerope. Paul August ☎ 11:12, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

@Paul August: - useful feedback! Let me know if you have a suggestion on how to best handle in the diagram. We could remove that box as was done by Ian Johnston. I would prefer to convey that info graphically that there was a potential even if somewhat debated/disputed relationship, but I don't want to mislead. - DutchTreat (talk) 01:14, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Not sure how to best convey this information. I don't think "disputed" is the right word though, these aren't disputes or debates just various versions of the story, with no "correct" one. Paul August ☎ 09:39, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

@Paul August: - I understand. Let's find a more general solution for dealing with the uncertainty of the parentage for Agamemnon and Menelaus. - DutchTreat (talk) 10:24, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Proposal 2, simplified: I propose the following replacement which removes the wife of Atreus given that we can't be sure of the lineage. The female boxes are color-coded to improve readability:

Tantalus

Pelops

Hippodamia

Thyestes

Atreus

Aegisthus

Agamemnon

Clytaemnestra

Menelaus

Helen

Iphigeneia

Electra

Orestes

Any comments? After a few days, I'll replace the raster image of the family tree with this version in the article. - DutchTreat (talk) 08:57, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Done, image replace with family tree using chart templates. This should make corrections and improvements easier. - DutchTreat (talk) 10:54, 14 September 2014 (UTC)