Talk:Atlas Comics (1950s)

POV tag

Good point. Since those historical trends are historical have been written about widely, including in the Gerard Jones book, we should cite and attribute. I'll start digging. --Tenebrae 00:02, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Then why did my tag get removed? Explain to me how Atlas can 'follow an EC horror trend' several months before EC had put out its first horror book? I collect Atlas books and I have always resented the implication that they 'copied' EC. Anyone who has actually read both companies' books then would see that. It is still full of POV statements. Calling the books 'trash' is not NPOV. I came to this article not looking for a fight but I was surprised to see Atlas getting bashed throughout the article. In the future, dont remove my tags until you have solved the issues...so far it appears almost unchanged save for a single citation. Atlas upped the amount of Horror titles upon EC's success, but they had been putting out horror books for several months. (the earliest one I recall was the mostly horror 'Captain America's Weird tales' #74 - which other than the Red Skull vs. Captain America in Hell battle, the rest of the book feature horror stories) EC was still putting out Moon Girl at this time. I ask that you at least changed the wording (and the name of the section) to sound less POV. user:Pzg Ratzinger

Found the "trash" reference and edited that paragraph to try to remove some of the POV.

The "single citation" is, first of all, two citations within the same source, namely an authorized company history written by a highly notable comics historian, Les Daniels. Second, the citations include Stan Lee himself saying Martin Goodman had him and Atlas follow EC's lead on horror.

I understand you're a fan, which is great. But that might not give one an objective eye. When longtime author-historian Les Daniels and witness and first-person-source Stan Lee are saying Atlas was a trend-follower, I don't know how that subhead could be construed as POV. It's not a judgment on Atlas; it's just an encapsulated statement of what was, in fact, a very successful business practice. --Tenebrae 19:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, but the article implys they 'copied' EC, but yet they got into the horror business before EC did. I do agree though, that as soon as EC took off, they tripled the number of horror titles put out and even revamped several titles to be horror (such as Journey Into Unknown Worlds). This can be reworded to satisfy my POV concerns without removing your point (which I understand). As you are the priciple author of this article I will leave that up to you, I know how it feels to have someone hijack an article. Maybe I am not 100% objective, but who is? As one of a realitively small circle of Atlas collectors, I probably know more of the subject then many people so I hope you'll take my criticism as constructive, rather than just a case of 'I want my biased POV instead of yours' user:Pzg Ratzinger

We're all editors together; I may have written most of this article, but it's by no means "mine," and personally, I wish more editors like you were expanding on pertinent facts and details here. It's great to have another person knowledgeable about Atlas here.

One cautionary note, if I may: Because of Wikipedia's stricture against original research, our own knowledge is important only in a sense of perspective and the notability of thiongs, since all our statements need to be confirmed by a print or online source.

You can edit, I can edit, all of us can edit — and other editors will edit us in turn. No permission needed in any case! Since I'm here, I'll try to tweak the text to address any concerns. Happy Wiki'ing! — Tenebrae 17:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course, but one's knowledge may help note the reliability of sources. I am strongly against Original Research, I am liberal with my use of the tag on other articles, so you wouldnt get any of that from me. I unfortunatly lack a third party source, however, for some of what I had said. I can look at the cover dates and see Atlas' fist horror books were back when EC was still doing Moon Girl, western and crime books. I am proceeding carefully until you and I have reached a consensus. user:Pzg Ratzinger

Cool!

I've actually already added information to the pertinent footnote to address the issue of Atlas having a couple of horror comics as early as 1949, if you get a chance to see it.

Quick Wiki-etiquette note: It's best not to insert a different editor's comments inside of an editor's posting. It can make things confusing. Better to keep each signed posting separate. Thanks!--Tenebrae 03:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Marvel Tales is probably the first full book of horror stories by Atlas, dated 1949, although they had the Captain America's Weird Tales at about the same time also (I suspect they were to going to change the title to "Weird tales" at some point but instead canned the title. user:Pzg Ratzinger

This article is POV, regardless. The implication is that DC was original and Marvel/Atlas was inferior. DC attempted to bring back it's original golden age heroes during the comic code censorship era and it had no more success than Marvels similar attempts. But articles like this and the Green Lantern one imply that DC made all the right moves, while Marvel flailed. The truth is that super hero comics during the 50s were not going to be allowed to flourish and alternate venues such as horror and humor skirted and avoided most of the trouble that went with writing about super heroes. Mad was published in magazine format specifically to completely avoid the comic code, which was the opening salvo of a battle for free speech which ended with the Spiderman drug issues. Trying to pass anything about comics in the 50s off as informative without mentioning the comics code is outright censorship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.41.134.5 (talk) 00:54, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Nobody is "censoring" anything. If you have a point or an historical fact that can be backed up by an authoritative, reliable-source citation, that's great. If not, then it's POV, which is not allowed. Also, I'm not sure what is meant by "super hero comics during the 50s were not going to be allowed to flourish...." Who would not be "allowing" it? --Tenebrae (talk) 07:40, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Atlas interior logo.jpg

Image:Atlas interior logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 12:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

FUR added. --Tenebrae 19:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:StrangeTales79.jpg

Image:StrangeTales79.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 15:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:YoungMen25.jpg

The image Image:YoungMen25.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --10:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

C-Class rated for Comics Project

As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T 14:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Image issue(s)

The fair use of image:Helpless - Al Williamson.jpg in this article is questionable. Listed below is/are the reason(s) for this:
• Significance: Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase, or its lack would significantly hinder, understanding the topic of the article. Full policy
• Use in a list article or section. Full guideline

Image is being used as a decorative element in conjunction with a list section.

If the above concern(s) can be addressed in light of the relevant policies and/or guidelines, the image use can be retained. If not, the image needs to be removed from the article.

The issue with Helpless - Al Williamson.jpg has been addressed.

- J Greb (talk) 19:00, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

First comic labeled "Marvel Comics"

I've ported this over from Talk:Amazing Adventures since it directly impacts this article:

Patsy Walker #95 (cover date: June, 1961) also had a small "MC" logo on its cover. I'm assuming it was published prior to Amazing Adventures #3 (cover date: August, 1961). --Mattkilleen (talk) 13:36, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

You're right: That and Journey into Mystery #69, both cover-dated June 1961. There's a list of comics with the MC box at Marvel : MC (Brand) at the Grand Comics Database. I'll adjust. --Tenebrae (talk) 02:19, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Multiple issue tags

It would be helpful if the editor placing the tag were to cite specific instances of his claims. The article has 14 footnotes — more, when counting multiple cites of the same footnote — direct quotes from eyewitness; a straight, factual list of titles (still in progression); and a small number of appropriate images. Any article can be improved, of course, so specifics would be appreciated. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:15, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Citation style

An anon IP, who under 86.143.47.252 has been on Wikipedia only since 26 February 2015, has made wholesale changes throughout the article to introduce a citation style that is at odds with common practice throughout WikiProject Comics. I'm quite certain that other editors discussing it would question certain aspects, such as using an abbreviation for Grand Comics Database, thereby making it vaguer for non-comics-fan readers. Here is one example:

replacing

I believe we also have a Grand Comics Database template that produces the latter result.

Either way, we don't make wholesale formatting changes to the Project without discussion first. None of us can unilaterally decide they're going to change common practice, particularly when the new style is questionable.--Tenebrae (talk) 01:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

In fact, now that I've looked at the, the Project's MOS specifies the latter at WP:CMOS#ISH. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Original-research tag

An anon IP has added an "original research" tag without specifying any purported issues here on the talk page. The article has 30 footnotes plus External links and further reading; a very large portion of it is cited title / issue numbers /dates information. I would ask the editor who placed the tag to discuss specifics so that other editors may address them. If this is not done, then the validity of the tag is in question and it may have been placed erroneously. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:42, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Another registered editor has replaced it with a "ref improve" tag, which seems more reasonable, though specifics are always welcome. --Tenebrae (talk) 03:03, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Sock?

The anon IPs 109.149.171.121 and‎ 86.143.47.252 are making highly similar edits, including WP:CMOS#ISH vio. My gut tells me it's a sockpuppet situation. I advise other editors to be on the lookout. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Atlas Comics (1950s)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Reduced from "Top" to "Mid". The publisher is a fair importance to the history of Marvel Comics, but not of the medium as a whole. — J Greb 14:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 08:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Sock-puppeting, edit-warring anon IP

86.173.238.156 and 86.173.237.249 have been edit-warring to add non-standard formatting so that some GCD citations are given one way and some are given another in the same article. Additionally, the status quo format is the standard in WikiProject Comics and there was no consensus on any change to this. They are flouting WP:BRD, edit-warring and sock-puppeting. I asked for page protection, and remarkably, despite the clear edit warring, that protection is not forthcoming. I ask other editors to keep an eye on this article.--Tenebrae (talk) 00:57, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Almost immediately after the article, which had been protected from him, was no longer protected, this sock-puppeting anon IP edit-warrior has returned, this time as 86.181.73.25. His non-standard formatting has been reverted, and if he continues to edit-war, the admin who protected this before will be asked to intervene. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:46, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

He has indeed continued to edit-war, and at this point appears to be reverting simply out of spite. I've asked the admin who protected the page before if he might do so again. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:56, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

A responsive and dedicated admin has protected the page. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:20, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Self-Cancelling Quotations

The block quotes in the "Pre-superhero Marvel" subsection consist of a statement by Jack Kirby followed by two different quotations casting doubt on that statement. Since these statements cancel each other out, I suggest they all be removed. Historydude58 (talk) 10:19, 1 October 2022 (UTC)