Talk:Asikni (goddess)

Requested move 21 December 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved as per suggestion .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 19:07, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

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(non-admin closure) Panchajani → Asikni – Both the names refer to the same lady but Asikni is the COMMON NAME and should be moved. Many scholarly books including Puranic Encyclopaedia by Vettam Mani and Hinduism: An Alphabetical Guide by Roshen Dalal use Asikni. .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 07:33, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

No opinion on whether move should occur or not, but Asikni should probably be a WP:NOPRIMARY WP:DAB, targetting Asikni (goddess) and Asikni (river). ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 09:52, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

@Hydronium Hydroxide: I just checked few Sanskrit - English dictionaries and found out that the word "Asikni" means dark and was first used to describe the river in the Rigveda (c. 1500 BCE). I think that the page can remain as a redirect and Panchajani should be moved to Asikni (goddess). .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 11:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Assessment

Redtigerxyz Since you are the manager of WP: Hinduism, please tell how to give assessment to this article .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 16:21, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Article issues

• Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing from Mani: "Birth and Marriage" para 1. Please reword
• Rati - generally mentioned only as a daughter of Daksha created from his sweat; does not have a mother
• Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Puranas by Swami Parmeshwaranand is not a copy paste of Mani's book; not WP:RS.
• The Matsya Purana calls the daughter of Virana and wife of Daksha as Panchajani.

Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:25, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@Redtigerxyz: I will surely work on it .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 17:30, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Redtigerxyz I have changed as per your suggestions.

• Vettam Mani, a scholar summaries —........., Please check.

• Removed Rati, could not find her.

• Removed the Encyclopedic Dictionary

• I am not sure what are you talking about. .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 11:21, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

For Mani, use quotes ("...") or write in your own words; this is superficial rewording. Please see Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing. Add also Matsya Purana (I missed to add ref that day, need to go to my refs again); will check again. I have not any reference which calls Askini a Hindu goddess ("devi") explicitly; similarly also Daksha is called a Prajapati (progenitor or agent of creation), not a Hindu god (deva), sometimes a rishi (Constance A. Jones and James D. Ryan in Encyclopedia of Hinduism).--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 13:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Redtigerxyz Ok, as per my knowledge Daksha is a demi god. (Mentioned in the sources of Sati article) .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 13:38, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't know how close paraphrasing works, so I have just added the direct words of the author. Please remove if there's some copyright issues. .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 14:05, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Asikni (goddess)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cerebellum (talk · contribs) 09:57, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I will be reviewing this article. --Cerebellum (talk) 09:57, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Cerebellum: Thank you..245CMR.•^👥📜 10:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@245CMR: Good work on this article! Just a couple comments below, the only one that is a showstopper for GA is the page numbers for citations. I'll place the article on hold until you can add those. --Cerebellum (talk) 10:51, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments

• WP:LEADCITE, it is up to your discretion but you do not need citations in the lead if the information is cited in the body.

 Done, Moved to body..245CMR.•^👥📜 12:29, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

• Our article Prajapati does not italicize the term, what is the reason for the italics?

@Cerebellum: The word Prajapati refers to a creator deity (Brahma), as well as a group of deities who help Brahma in creation. Here Prajapati is a title.

• The word "Asikni" means "dark" or "not white". I would add "in Sanskrit" for clarity.

Changed to The Sanskit word "Asikni" means "dark" or "not white".

• The word is used in the Rigveda (c. 1500 BCE) to describe the river Chenab. WP:CITEKILL, you have four citations for this sentence but only need one.

 Done

• The second image is the family tree for Surya, but the article never mentions Surya. I would remove the image or add info on Surya to the article text.

Changed caption to "Like many other deities, the sun god Surya descended from Daksha and Panchajani (Asikni)." Asikni's daughters being progenitors is mentioned in the body.

• Some references are missing page numbers, for example 1, 2, 3. This is important for the GA criteria.

Added for most sources, but Debroy (Harivamsha) and AC Prabhupada (Bhagavata Purana) doesn't provide page numbers.

• Are there articles on the Hindi (or other Indian language) wikipedia for Virana or Panchajana? If so you can link them using the interlanguage link template, like this: Jamal al-Din al-Watwat.

@Cerebellum: No there is no such article. He is not notable and nothing is known about him other than him being a Prajapati and Asikni's father..245CMR.•^👥📜 11:07, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

--Cerebellum (talk) 10:51, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Cerebellum: I have finished the corrections, you may check..245CMR.•^👥📜 12:29, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Great thank you for the fast response!! Pass. --Cerebellum (talk) 13:18, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Cerebellum: Thank you very much..245CMR.•^👥📜 13:33, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Desertarun (talk) 08:01, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that in Hindu mythology, the creator deity Daksha married Asikni, after realising that copulation was necessary for procreation? Source: [1]

• Comment: This is my third DYKN

Improved to Good Article status by 245CMR (talk). Self-nominated at 14:28, 8 June 2021 (UTC).

• The article was promoted to Good Article status on 8 June. It is long enough, well-referenced, and neutrally written with no significant copyvios. The hook is cited-inline in the article and is interesting. AGF on the source. No QPQ needed as this the nominator's third nomination. Good to go! Ashleyyoursmile! 10:17, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Ashleyyoursmile: Thank you..245CMR.•^👥📜 10:20, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Good Article

How is this article remotely comprehensive? TrangaBellam (talk) 16:39, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

And, how are the following sources reliable for academic Indology?

• Bibek Debroy
• Baby Names for Girls
• PrabhupadaBooks.Com?
• Invading the Sacred
• Gopalakrisna N. Bhat
• J H Dave

TrangaBellam (talk) 17:42, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Though Bibek Debroy is an economist, his works are reliable and are of academic level. You may about google him. Prabhupada is used as a translation and translational are acceptable. Invading the secret (despite its controversy), Gopal... give inline citation and reference to a primary scriptures, making them WP: Secondary. I don't know where JH dave is mentioned. With regards,.245CMR.•^👥📜 18:09, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Show me a publication in Indology (over any top-tier academic journal or book published by academic press) which speaks highly of Debroy's translations.

See a damning review of Debroy's Ramayana over Regier, Willis Goth (2018). "The Valmiki Ramayana trans. Bibek Debroy, and: The Rāmāyaṇa of Vālmīki trans. Robert P. Goldman and Sally J. Sutherland Goldman (review)". Modern Language Notes. 133 (5): 1443–1445. doi:10.1353/mln.2018.0095. ISSN 1080-6598.

You find Debroy noting of the Brahma Purana to only mention 50 daughters. But, Peter Schreiner's famed critical edition states a figure of 60. How do you explain this?

[T]ranslational are acceptable, no. That is much more of a GV commentary which has been critiqued by non-adherents.

See Baird, Robert D. (1986). "Swami Bhaktivedanta and the Bhagavadgita 'As It Is.'". In Minor, Robert Neil (ed.). Modern Indian interpreters of the Bhagavadgita. Albany: State University of New York Press. p. 200-221. ISBN 0-88706-297-0.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: date and year (link)

A source does not become reliable if it provides inline citation to primary scriptures. Inv. the Sacred is from the Hindutva Cottage Industry, which no decent academic takes seriously. Gopal had no meaningful peer-review.

There is a source by Jayantakrishna Harikrishna Dave.

What about my first point about the lack of comprehensiveness? TrangaBellam (talk) 04:16, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I have removed all the poor sources. How does errors like these persist through a GAR? TrangaBellam (talk) 18:42, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

• @Cerebellum: Do you oppose a de-list? TrangaBellam (talk) 21:34, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

• I'm not sure. Why do you say it is not comprehensive? It's short, but I'm not sure what else there is to say. --Cerebellum (talk) 09:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Edits

• Daksha of the Vedic Pantheon and Daksha of the Purannic pantheon are not same. His evolution has been studied in detail by Klostermaier, J. Bruce Long and others. Asikni is his wife in the Puranas; not in Vedas/Brahmanas. Please do not remove relevant details.
• Is there any policy/guideline which states that lines used in a DYK shall stay? If there exists no such rule:

• Your statement implies that Daksha had realized the necessity of copulation but didn't have a wife to engage with. So, he went to a penance to please Vishnu and win a wife.
• My reading of the Puranas and the embedded creation-myth differ. Daksha intended to please Vishnu so that he might know of a way to populate the Earth. Then, Vishnu told him of copulation and granted Aksini. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2021 (UTC)