Talk:Arnold School

This is well started and is laying good foundations for a B article or higher. Infobox and some cats are missing. Refs good. Pics? Welcome Victuallers 11:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

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Notable?

This is a remarkable list of notable alumni, many of whom are so notable they have no Wikipedia article... --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 14:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Does one judge notablity on having a Wiki page these days then?

• Not by any means. But if someone is notable enough to be listed here, you'd think someone would see fit to write an article about them, or at least a stub. It's a pretty impressive list, after all, with a lot of honors. Also, how are we non-Arnold School people supposed to differentiate between someone like Ben G. Nigam, and Sir Martin Holdgate or, for that matter, Samuel Flitman? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• And where's even the evidence that, say, Sir William Lyons was a student at Arnold? His article doesn't indicate it in any way. I'm thinking the entire list should be considered bogus until demonstrated otherwise, with reliable sources that can be verified. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:34, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• Sir William Lyons was a pupil at the school, hence why there's a suite in the Design Centre named after him. If it pains you so much sir, why not drop an email to the school for confirmations?
  • Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's requirement that information presented here be verifiable and come from reliable sources. It's possible that I'm wrong in my observation about some of the people on this list, but it's made a lot harder when people are trying to include obvious fake entries like Flitman, Nigam, Fisher, and Weetch. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:49, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• With due respect Sir. This is a direct quote from the Arnold School website:

Solid foundations Arnold School was founded by Frank Truswell Pennington on 4th May 1896. Known initially as South Shore Collegiate School, the school moved to its present site in Lytham Road when Pennington took over and gradually, expanded the buildings of an earlier Victorian School. He then adopted the former school’s name of Arnold House School, named after Dr Thomas Arnold, Headmaster of Rugby School. The name was later amended to Arnold School.

Distinguished pupils By the time of his death in May, 1938, Pennington had given the School to the Old Boys who elected a Governing Council. From its inception, Arnold has attracted pupils of the highest calibre from the Fylde Coast. In return, the school has given Lancashire many of its most distinguished citizens, including Sir William Lyons, the founder of Jaguar Cars and Dr Michael Smith who received the Nobel Prize for Chemistry in 1993, a replica of which is on permanent display in the school entrance hall. Other notable alumni include:

Honours

Sir Walter Clegg (Government Chief Whip, Ex-Officio Controller of the Royal Household); Sir Harold Grime (Director of Reuter’s Agency, Chairman of the Press Association, Deputy Lieutenant of Lancashire); Sir Martin Holdgate (Geographical and Zoological); Sir William Lyons (Founder of Jaguar Cars); Sir Earnest Woodhouse Smith, (President of Institute of Fuel).

Academic

Michael Austin, (Professor of Organ and Counterpoint, Royal Academy of Music); Peter Beighton (Professor of Human Genetics); Terence Charleston (Professor of Early Music, Royal Academy of Music); Geoffrey Deamaley (Professor of Physics); Harold Fox (Professor - University of Manchester); Alan Gillies (Professor of Information Management, University of Central Lancashire); Richard Hardman, (President of Geological Society); David Harris (Tutorial Fellow in Priochemistry, University of Oxford); Paul Helm (Professor of History & Philosophy of Religion); Stephen Hold (Professor of Gastroenterology & Medicine, Canada); Ashley Kent, (President of Geographical Society); Geoffrey Marshall, (Provost of the Queen’s College, Oxford); Charles Moseley (Director of Studies, Wolfson College Cambridge); Eric Renshaw (Professor of Statistics, Strathclyde University); Michael Smith (Nobel Prize Winner); Peter Wall (Professor of Priotechnology); John Wilkinson (President, European Haematological Society; Life Councillor, International Haematological Society, Freeman of the City of London); David Wilde (Professor at Hockschule fur Musik und Thectes, Hanover and international concert pianist); Keith Yates (Professor of Chemistry).

Public Life/Commerce

Douglas Bickerstaffe (Chairman of Blackpool Tower Company); Peter Boydell (Leader of the Parliamentary Bar; Chancellor of the Diocese of Truro); His Honour Judge Robert Brown, (Circuit Judge); District Judge Michael Buckley (Northern Court Circuit); Dr Alan Curry, (controller Forensic Science Service, Home Office); Arthur Firth, (Editor of the Daily Express, Sports Editor of the Daily Mail); Keith Gledhill, (Deputy Lieutenant of Lancashire, High Sheriff of Lancashire); His Honour Judge Christopher Hilliard (Member of the Central Criminal Court ); Frederick Laws, (Vice-Chairman Commission for Local Administration in England); Alderman Rhodes Marshall (Honorary Freeman of Blackpool and twice Mayor of Blackpool); James Mitchell (Chairman of Stead & Simpson); Keith Oates, (Deputy Chairman and Joint Finance Director of Marks & Spencer); Norman Quick, (Chairman of H & J Quick Group Plc, High Sheriff).

Sport

James Armfield OBE, High Sheriff of Lancashire, (43 caps for England Soccer, 15 as captain); George Eastham OBE, (19 caps for England Soccer); Tom Graveney, (79 tests for England Cricket); Robert Hesford, (10 Caps for England Rugby Union); Barrie-Jon Mather, (3 caps for Great Britain Rugby League, 2 caps for England Rugby League, 1 cap for England Rugby Union); James Mitchell (England Cricket); Malcolm Phillips, (25 caps for England Rugby Union); David Stephenson, (10 caps for Great Britain Rugby League).

Arts/Theatre/TV etc.

Jonas Armstrong, (Theatre and TV actor); David Ball, (Member of pop group “Soft Cell”); Jenna - Louise Coleman (Theatre and TV actress); Christopher Lowe, (One of the “Pet Shop Boys”); Peter Purves (TV Personality); Michelle Walton, (Opera Singer with Scottish Opera).

http://www.arnoldschool.com/html/History_7.html

It certainly pains me that someone without any prior knowledge of the school or its outstanding contributors throughout a century of British and world history fails to be verified by yourself due to the fact they do not appear on "Wikipedia" or any "Google" search.

A formal apology would be very forthcoming.

• Where are Flitman, Nigam, Fisher, and Weetch? Or, for that matter, Coggin? As I said, I could be wrong about Lyons, and I was. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• Again Sir. Being an accredited member of Arnold School for a total of 10 years and an Old Arnoldian for many more, it appears that, yes, some pupils have taken it at their liberty to vulgarise and graffitti upon this place of learning. However. I do not certainly this it is your place to delete esteemed members of the OA wider circle. If you were to look at the school records and indeed the school leavers, published annually, you would find these names. As consequently, you show no desire to verify these names beyond limited internet searches, unless you check the records themselves by contacting Arnold School directly to check to whether these people did indeed attend Arnold and are then should rightfully be justified a place upon the Arnold School wikipedia section. I suggest therein, that unless you are willing to check with the Old Arnoldian society, you should not make anymore brash and downright disrespectful names against the men and women who attended this academic establishment.

• With regards to Mr Weetch. His film was shown on the popular Granada television programme 'Granada Tonight' documentating the schools charity work in Tanzania, which earnt the staff member in charge of the excursion Mr Kendall Lee, an OBE and a meeting with the Queen. To therefore completely disregard such work would be disrespectful to the hours of man power and sacrifice the school and especially Mr Weetch and Mr Lee have put into providing charity work in Tanzania, which has accumulated in a school for the blind along with various well projects and road building excercises. Even though this is not deemed as 'popular' as for example, Mr Purves who appeared on 'Blue Peter', charity work is an esteemed and reputable practice, even if it does not appear highlighted on a 'google' search engine.
  • That's all very well and good. Please cite your reliable verifiable sources; that's how Wikipedia works. Oh, and sign your posts here on talk pages by appending ~~~~ (that's four tildes) to them. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• A link has now been provided which verifies the facts stated previously. I sincerely hope an amicable solution can now be reached and the previous incredulous tone ceases.
• Please sign your posts with ~~~~. So, where's this Rhian Coggin person in your references? I appreciate that you are putting in accurate information; it does not for a moment lessen my incredulity at the nonsense that's also been put into this article in the last couple of days. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• This Rhian Coggin person is listed (as stated in the article) on the following website:

http://www.arnoldschool.com/html/UniversityDestinations_676.html Trooserjazz 23:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• • Well, sure, there's someone there listed as "R Coggin", but in what way can we verify that what the list says is correct: Rhian Coggin, Linguist, University of Manchester, University of Sheffield, Folkuniversitetet Göteborg? All we can verify is that a person named R Coggin left Arnold. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Verifying alumni

Hi. Just dropping by to encourage the contributors here to keep to the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. User:Jpgordon is quite right that making sure that each alum mentioned has a reference to both their attendence and their notability will keep the list from being strangely cluttered with either non-alums or random names from the class lists. It looks like there has been some start towards this, and that's good to see. Jkelly 23:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The links shows that rhian coggin has gone to the University of Manchester and is a valid source. If it upsets you so much ring them or get away from your PC for once and fly to Manchester and find out. Why do you need to be famous to be part of this. Are you trying to say their achievements exceed ours and they are more superior as they have been on TV for eg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.110.100.139 (talk • contribs) 23:47, April 22, 2006 (UTC)

Apologies for whoever wrote the last statement. However, a few facts do ring true. The website explicitly states that R. Coggin has indeed studied linguistics at the University of Manchester. Trooserjazz 23:51, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• Well, no, it says he studied German/Russian there; and it says nothing about University of Sheffield and Folkuniversitetet Göteborg. (We really do have to be that nit-picky here about our data and our data sources; and when we discover questionable information, we grab onto it like a bulldog until it's either verified or discarded.) As far as the previous statement is concerned, I don't worry much about the opinions of vandals. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• Whilst it is easy to verify say, major historical events, of course it will be difficult to do the same for a small school in North West England. What is going on here isn't sullying the reputation of Wikipedia, or indeed just a bunch of school children having a laugh. The information is relevent to Arnold School (isn't that the job of an Encyclopaedia anyway?) and therefore I feel the constant deletion of entries is absurd. There are various other articles written on here which hold content that is somewhat dubious. A prime example being one on Bernhard Schlink's book Der Vorleser (which has now been corrected I believe.). Point being there will always be inaccuracies.

Should you wish for proof of the academic whereabouts and history of Rhian Coggin, I can happily provide you with screen shots, however you won't be allowed acces first hand as they're university directories which you need a campus username to access.

• Rhian is a girl's name.

Why am i a vandal could you give evidence to why i am. I do apologise to what was said, but i was becoming increasingly frustrated. Trooserjazz has given you all the evidence and links to assure you that the information is factually correct you have refused to except this and began to nit pick

Please can we cease all this nonsense of who is and who is not posting in-credible information. All necessary information regarding Arnold School, its achievements, its noteable alumni and its not so noteable alumni can be confirmed on the official Arnold School website (and not just on internet search engines). I should expect that using this method we can all work together in order to create a respectable and credible Wikipedia site where anyone wishing to find reliable information regarding the academic establishment can be sought. I pray that this may be the end of ongoing nonsensical correspondance. Thankyou.

• (a) Please sign your posts with ~~~~. (b) Wikipedia has a very strict rule: information has to be verifiable. It's the responsibility of the person putting the information into an article to assure the verifiability; secret or confidential sources (such as the university directories) don't really fit well into this scheme, do they? Nit picking is precisely necessary -- in the real world, it's called fact checking. (c) Please convince your classmates to stop adding their chums to the list; it's that sort of vandalism that brought me here in the first place. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:32, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
• i'd just like to say i don't really like the cut of jpgordon's jib, to be quite frank.

and you know what? i bet he's REALLY fat, too. xanxan