Talk:Armin Meiwes/Archive 1

Archive 1

Postings

Where are the hundreds of postings he is said to have made to find victims? Usenet? Web?

Check out the links i added in "external links" area

Birth date

The German version of Wikipedia claims that Armin Meiwes was born in 1962, not 1961. Which is correct? Yogi de 14:57, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bernd Jürgen Armando Brandes

Redirected Bernd Jürgen Armando Brandes to this article, since the only thing he is known for was being eaten by Meiwes--nixie 06:40, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That's quite a whimsical thing to be known for... 71.141.116.41 05:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I was going to say something in response to your use of whimsical, meaning "playfully quaint or fanciful especially in a amusing or appealing way," but I decided you speak for yourself.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mac_Davis (talk • contribs) 05:48, 18 February 2006. (See diff)

Details

Any details on the actual murder itself?
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.155.154.25 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 10 December 2005. (See diff)

--> answer: I hope you don't want to see the video?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.225.110 (talk • contribs) 20:37, 12 January 2006 (See diff)

Actually, I concur with the above users statement, this article needs to be expanded on, a brief snippet of a news article on the demand for his charge to be upgraded to murder has yielded more information than Wiki has. And for the record, I'm not sure whether 'the video' is out there, but I highly recommend no linkage to such content. 211.30.80.121 01:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Could someone put in that currently he is suing Rammstein because of Mein Teil, as well as the makers of the movie Rotenburg (based on the events, scheduled to be released in march)? 70.178.115.165 23:02, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

He's suing? This boggles the mind. Sure, he's very sick, but even he must realise that such a sensational crime would find its way into popular culture...
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.54.96.26 (talk • contribs) 05:51, 16 January 2006 (See diff)

How sick is he really though? He saw what made him happy, crazy or not. The other guy agreed. Its weird, but its just the S&M of S&M. I dont want to ever do that, but both of those people were happy. Whatever. Gross. But whatever.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.19.98.213 (talk • contribs) 07:30, 22 February 2006 (See diff)

Don't hope people aren't serious. It's disrespectful. Roy Harmon 04:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4752797.stm, Meiwes and his victim had sex. Is this true? If so, it should be mentioned in the article. 71.2.169.184 15:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Creepy picture

If someone can find a good, freely usable picture, I would definitely support exchanging it for the current creepy one. The current picture might be deleted because of its unclear copyright status, anyway. -- Kjkolb 06:29, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I did some looking around. All I can find are a couple of pics of him with a blank stare. CardinalFangZERO 17:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm so tired of all this concern about copyright status on wiki. ALL copyrighted pictures COULD be used here under Fair Use. I know that they're NOT, but research and comment upon is a perfectly legitimate Fair Use.

Not years but months

"they met in March 2001" and Meiwes was arrested in 2002. So he could not eat him for next years but for at max. months - someone said 10 months. kath
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.168.7.193 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 3 March 2006 (See diff)

Photo Copyright

The photo used in this article appears to be an Associated Press file photo. The uploaded picture did not contain permission content. Taco325i 07:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

You know what's really stupid? The picture still shows if you go under history. This discussion is so pointless, it is a bunch of people being technical about details. Almost everyone on Wikipedia misses the point. Oh! I didn't sign my name! Whine about it!

Vandalism?

"Brandes apparently tried to eat his share of his own penis rare, but could not because it was too tough and as he put it, 'chewy'."--is this a legitimate quote?

-Only way to know for sure would be to watch the video - Something which isn't recommended. ~ Magicana

Where can I watch the video? I would really really love to watch it. Skinnyweed 18:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

ewww... ewww.... and double ewwww!! Plus, you do realise it is most probably illegal to have a copy of the video wherever you are? Mathmo 11:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Why would it be illegal? Doesn't matter anyway, I'll get it illegally. Skinnyweed 14:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

now that's the spirit Lenn0r 20:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

If the only way you'd know is by watching the video and no one here has or wants to (few exceptions it seems) I don't think it belongs in the article 70.57.63.159 03:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps someone could just listen to it instead of looking? If you need a quote, you don't necessarily have to look. BrainRotMenacer 19:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

"cannabalistic internet user"

i wonder if the internet would have existed during hitler's time if his wiki article would start "a vegatarian internet user who slaughtered 11 million in the Holocaust." just found the phrase amusing lol Lenn0r 20:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I found it pretty offputting too --Nosmo 15:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Bloodbath reference

Does anyone have a source for this? Frankly, songs about cannibalism are very common in death metal, and Bloodbath is an exercise in recreating "old skool" death metal, so that makes it even more likely that the song is exploring a standard theme as opposed to current events. --Nosmo 15:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

No cannibalism crime in Germany?

I seem to recall that some of the difficulty in charging the case was due to Germany actually not having a law prohibiting cannibalism at the time. Is this true? Kelvingreen 17:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

According to the BBC it is, so I've added it. Kelvingreen 21:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

There is no law against cannibalism. There are never laws against things that never happened before. Killing is a crime, and doing nasty stuff to corpses is a crime, but eating it is not a crime by itself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.189.199.14 (talk) 00:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Undeletable Message!?

"JUDEN JUDEN ANGE!! YOU MUST DIE!

You to anders"

- it's said in the text at the end, but it can't be edited!? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.51.120.44 (talk) 17:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

It's important to known his political views?

What this deranged psycho supports as political view is of no interest to the regular Wiki user. The underlying facts that really matters are those related to him murdering another man, not his petty political views. It appears to be sensationalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.167.86.142 (talk) 03:25, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

pork or beef?

other sources state that human flesh tastes like beef or veal, and NOT like chicken or pork

"Prior to 1931, New York Times reporter William Buehler Seabrook, allegedly in the interests of research, obtained from a hospital intern at the Sorbonne a chunk of human meat from the body of a healthy human killed by accident, and cooked and ate it. He reported that, "It was like good, fully developed veal, not young, but not yet beef. It was very definitely like that, and it was not like any other meat I had ever tasted. It was so nearly like good, fully developed veal that I think no person with a palate of ordinary, normal sensitiveness could distinguish it from veal. It was mild, good meat with no other sharply defined or highly characteristic taste such as for instance, goat, high game, and pork have. The steak was slightly tougher than prime veal, a little stringy, but not too tough or stringy to be agreeably edible. The roast, from which I cut and ate a central slice, was tender, and in color, texture, smell as well as taste, strengthened my certainty that of all the meats we habitually know, veal is the one meat to which this meat is accurately comparable."[" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Topk (talk • contribs) 14:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a fucking garbage you wrote here, man, now I want to throw it all on you, argh!

Maybe different people have different flavors. I doubt there has been much research done in this area. In any event, the taste of the victim doesn't seem too relevant to this article... TheBlinkster (talk) 20:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

victim?

I feel like referring to Brandes as a "victim" is a loaded term. Since there is dispute over how this case should be treated, I feel we should avoid this word. Can anyone think of a more neutral word that still accurately describes Brandes? MykellM (talk) 21:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Subject? Ingredient? Though I agree that victim is a loaded term, according to what I've read (admittedly not much) they didn't really have any sort of relationship (friendship, family, acquaintanceship, anything) other than the consumptive one. Other than simply referring to Brandes by name rather than as "his (Meiwes') victim" there aren't a lot of options.97.112.30.162 (talk) 05:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC) With all respect to his relatives he could be refereed as The Dinner.--208.80.115.126 (talk) 00:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

There is such a term as "willing victim". Being a "victim" doesn't rule out willingness by itself, though in normal use one would assume it does, in this case it's stated that Brandes came voluntarily, so you can use "victim" and people will still know what you mean. 188.29.164.185 (talk) 14:20, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I'd say that 'victim' is an accurate word, because, whether he agreed to the act or not, murder is illegal, and therefore he was the 'victim' of a crime. Consent makes no difference to the legality. Pollythewasp (talk) 12:30, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Whether you like it or not, this guy was not murdered. He wanted it. It's like saying all women are raped on their honeymoon.184.155.120.157 (talk) 00:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Different scopes. The victim consenting to being killed does not create a legal right for someone else to do it. Illegal homicide is, by definition, murder - consent is irrelevant. 2600:1700:343A:9250:2851:813D:B623:C5AF (talk) 04:17, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Legally he is a "victim" now though, because the court ruled that Meiwes committed murder. TheBlinkster (talk) 20:45, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Sperm as a food additive?

"He was considered gay because adding sperm on his daily meals" - if ever there was a case for "citation needed", this is it.

H7dders (talk) 14:09, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention, the wording sounds like a schoolkid put that in the article. -- 75.183.7.184 (talk) 02:56, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

yea a Gay Cannibal :D

Sexual orientation?

I fail to see how the fact that Meiwes and Brandes were "openly bisexual" is relevant. Kristinaaliceinwonderland (talk) 21:22, 15 February 2010 (UTC) Kristina

Because there was a sexual element to the killing, for both men. Sexual expression between to men makes them at least gay. But they weren't, they were bisexual. It's their right to be identified as what they are. Lest anyone think they were just gay, which is nothing to be ashamed of, but simply isn't true. "Openly" meaning they let people know about it, rather than keeping it a secret (which would be "closet bisexual").

The killing was sexually motivated, which makes their sexual identity relevant.

188.29.164.185 (talk) 14:17, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I have removed the sexuality categories from the article as they aren't supported by the text. As the subjct is a living person, WP:BLP requires self identification which isn't provided in the article. Even for the victim, we need strong sourcing supporting the idea he was bisexual or gay, see Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality. Incidentally, it sounds like you don't really understand sexual orientation. Even regularly willing having sex with a person of the same sex for fun doesn't make you gay or bisexual, let alone eating a penis (whatever the sexual dimension). Nil Einne (talk) 12:35, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the history of the article, I found "Meiwes is openly bisexual, as was Brandes.". If someone wants to readd this to the article and the categories I won't object. But the categories don't belong unless the text and sources are in the article. A big problem is that although presented as a biography, the structure of the article is primarily a crime one not a biography so you'd need to find some way to integrate it. Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Also wondered why homosexuality isn't mentioned in the article at all. Apparently it has been censored out for political correct reasons. 41.151.219.29 (talk) 20:03, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

References

Psychology

I find the lack of any discussion of the psychology of a human being having the desires which Meiwes and his victim displayed a huge omission in this article. Surely, some discussion of these aspects must have surfaced during the criminal trials? __meco (talk) 02:41, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced and false

'According to journalists who saw the video ' is BS. No journalists ever got to see that video. The video has been evaluated once within a tiny circle of policemen and court officials and has been securely locked away by the police afterwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.157.48.41 (talk) 20:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Crime

I removed the claim there was a question over whether he had commited a crime [1]. It's not supported by the BBC source used.

The BBC source only notes that cannabilism is or was not a crime in Germany. So it may be if he had just eaten the victim, with the victim's permission and was not involved in any way in the victim's death, he wouldn't be guilty of a crime. But this is obviously quite distinct from whether he was involved in a crime in a case like this where he killed the victim, which may be a crime regardless of the legality of eating the victim.

AFAIK even in countries like the Netherlands and Belgium with legal voluntary euthanasia, there are still various safeguards which are unlikely to have been met in this case. And Germany isn't on such country anyway [2] [3].

In other words, I find it very unlikely there was ever any real debate over the existance of a crime (the only real avenue would seem to be whether the subject/killer had sufficient mental issues to make him not culpable). So I suggest it needs strong sourcing if we are to claim there was.

There may have been debate over what crime was committed, which seems to have been borne out in the trial. In particular, depending on Germany law it's possible that with proper informed consent having been given and depending on the motives of the subject, it may not be murder but some other form of homicide (presuming Germany has such a distinction which it sounds like they do). As per the article, the court did eventual rule it murder anyway although it sounds like there was also doubt on the consent so I don't know if the issue was ever really dealt with.

Nil Einne (talk) 13:01, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

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"Consultant in criminal cases"

"According to a Bild report from October 2007, Meiwes was helpful in the analysis of two suspected cannibal murders from 1998 and 2000"...

Bild is Germany's National Enquirer with pictures of topless women mixed in. (The word 'Bild' is German for 'picture'. People aren't buying this to read the articles.)

I can't find another source for this claim *period*, let alone from a reputable source. - 73.11.41.29 (talk) 08:02, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Vorarephilia as motive?

This page lists the motive for Armin's actions as 'vorarephilia'. However, it seems to me that his actions are more in line with a cannibalism fetish, which exists as a separate fetish outside of vorarephilia. The Wikipedia page on Vorarephilia even explicitly states, "Vore fantasies are separated from sexual cannibalism because the living victim is normally swallowed whole," a claim which is supported by a scholarly journal. To my knowledge, Armin never explicitly stated vore as his motive, and the physical actions are more in line with cannibalism.

Given that the motive appears to be unsubstantiated and the evidence is more in line with a cannibalism fetish, I propose that the listed motive should either be changed to "cannibalism fetish", a generic "sexual gratification", or removed altogether. Kilodyne (talk) 04:30, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

• After a week of no disputes, I've changed this to a simple "sexual gratification", as this seems most consistent with the known facts. Kilodyne (talk) 06:27, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Metzgermeister

Is there any source for calling him "Metzgermeister"? This is a very common word in German, but I have never heard it in this context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810D:EC0:C850:94A4:8630:C93:5454 (talk) 15:20, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

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"Feed Me" film

I've been reading a lot of reviews about this film, stating that it was loosely based on Armin Meiwes. But I can't find anything from anyone involved with the film saying this. So putting this on the TALK page in case anyone might find a better source than "it's common knowledge, like, everyone knows it, dude". 2600:1700:343A:9250:2851:813D:B623:C5AF (talk) 04:29, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

citation query

is daily mail allowed to put because I'm editing this in a rush. Sq2id (talk) 16:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

It's generally not allowed, and this article is a biography of a living person, so there are higher standards than usual. See WP:DAILYMAIL. QuietCicada - Talk 16:49, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

No. Please see WP:DAILYMAIL. Helper201 (talk) 17:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC)