Talk:Ariel (The Little Mermaid)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Clean up

Okay this article needs clean up. it's choppy short and is more about the various little mermaid things then Ariel. i have no idea what to do to save this article so somebody better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.95.154 (24.125.95.154) 01:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

First thing that's needed is a pic. I'll find a good one to use. --Invader TAK 15:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Got it. --Invader TAK 15:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

OMG! I HAD DONE LIKE SO MUCH AND MADE SO MANY ACCURATE THINSG ABOUT ARIEL! WHO ERASED THEM! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.0.228.144 (67.0.228.144) 08:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The Kingdom Hearts section is a little long and full of useless information.--Sango4ever (talk) 15:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to edit it down, that's what wikipedia's for. Annie D (talk) 22:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

giselle

okay i changed it ariel is the only disney princess that has red head giselle is not an offical disney princess just a princess in a disney film like tiger lily in peter pan or ella in ella anchanted or ariels sisters or daughter of the MILLIONS ANS MILLIONS of princess in disney films they picked the most famous heroines characterws of disney films (why mulan is a offical disney princess but not actually a royal in the film) pixar is doing a movie the bear and the bow which features a princess with red hair but why'll pixar films are still disney we don't know if she'll join the disney princesses yet so Ariel is still the only disney princess with red hair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.199.25 (talk) 23:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Headings

Hi, I changed the headings into links, getting rid of the {{main}} template. Please feel free to revert the changes if they are problematic. :) --Kjoonlee 07:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

ok. thank you ever so much

You are most welcome!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Provnapt (talk • contribs) 18:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Article title

This article is supposed to be, "Princess Ariel", because she's the only official "Princess Ariel" of all fictional characters. --PJ Pete

Fair use rationale for Image:Ar-iel2.jpg

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BetacommandBot 07:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Finnish

Uh Johanna Nurmimaa did the original dub and turned down the role for the redub and instead they used Nina Tapio for the redub Matthew Cantrell (talk) 22:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Ariel's mother.JPG

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Only Princess to have red hair?

Is that really important to include in the article? Cactusjump (talk) 00:05, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed. I can't believe someone would go here to look up which Disney princess has red hair. Cactusjump (talk) 19:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

International Voice Casting

Is this standard in a character article? Seems superfluous and irrelevant to me. Cactusjump (talk) 00:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Only if the voice actors are themselves notable, I'd say. Powers ^T 18:41, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Awards

She won three awards one for being the most popular disney heroine, another for most popular disney princess, and last but not least most attractive disney heroine--DisneyLover1 (talk) 22:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Ariel's Bad Luck in other Media

I don't know if this relevant to the article, but has anyone noticed the bad luck that befalls her in non Disney media? In Shrek 2 she ends up getting kissed by Shrek and then those to some sharks. In American Dad! she killed by the CIA. And in Drawn Together she's in a bad car crash. Even in a trailer for Lilo & Stitch she get her top knocked off by the title alien. Any thoughts or comments? Ztyran (talk) 03:26, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Eh, Wikipedia is not a forum so this sorta topic should be discussed elsewhere--GroovySandwich 05:48, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Appearances in other media

The section and its subsections is pretty long. The majority of the writing in the article is in that section. In character pages that have reached Good Article status, such a section is usually short and to the point. This one is long and attempts to cover every little detail. I figure it needs shortening--GroovySandwich 05:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Last sentence entry section

"Her distinct appearance consists of long, flowing red hair, blue eyes, a green tail and a purple seashell bikini top with various hairstyles." Her seashell bikini top really has various hairstyles? Must be one heck of a bikini. --94.134.216.170 (talk) 07:32, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Tom White

In the intro paragraph, it mentions Ariel divorcing Eric and remarrying a "Tom White," who is supposedly her daughter's father. This character is not mentioned again in the article. This seems like vandalism, or perhaps some fan fiction thing. Trebligoniqua (talk) 17:23, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism. Thanks for pointing it out! --NeilN ^{talk to me} 17:25, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Roger Allers?

Hey, quick question - the character box says that the film version of Ariel was created by Roger Allers, but the article itslef seems to imply that Glen Keane was responsible. Who was it, exactly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.235.174.11 (talk) 22:39, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

i would go with who the movie says :)

Spectra1127 (talk) 21:28, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Ariel's superhuman strength

Hi, User:Weedle McHairybug I see your argument, but I dispute that Ariel has superhuman strength, simply based on how animated films defy the laws of physics and biology on a regular basis, and that comparisons to the real world are useless unless made explicit or spelled out in dialogue. Your arguments are:

• "Her moving a boulder blocking the underwater grotto without effort, which would be virtually impossible due to an imbalanced water volume pretty much sealing it tight."
  • I can argue that the underwater world has magical elements that are beyond human understanding and the cave could be one of them, or that the boulder is lighter than it appears, or it was wedged on a fulcrum that makes moving it easier if only you know exactly where to push.
• "Her grabbing Eric with only one hand and getting him up to the surface with little, if any effort."
  • I argue this is the filmmaker's intentions of keeping the rescue simple and efficient, just like how they make the merfolk able to talk underwater in a way we understand when physically that shouldn't be possible either, or how they made Ariel's swim to the surface after she gets legs very fast when Ursula's lair isn't close to the surface.
• Her climbing up a ship with minimum effort with only her arms.
  • Same as the above.

If you wish to compare Ariel to other animated characters with super strength, an easy benchmark is this -- is it widely known that she has super strength? Is this one of the character's known traits? Can you provide reliable references that mention her strength? If yes, feel free to add it under the "characteristics" section, then it won't be disputed. AD (talk) 02:26, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Responding to your points:

• Doubtful it has anything to do with magical abilities that we aren't aware of. Divers can tell you that trying to open doors when underwater is either virtually or downright impossible, especially in places such as shipwrecks. Considering the volume imbalance in her grotto, there is no way that door could have been opened.
• And for your second and third points, the problem is that the writers made clear in their commentaries that they tried to replicate underwater physics and make them as realistic as possible, so while you could argue that they did it for audience's sake, that is very unlikely. Besides, considering that merpeople constantly swim around, they most likely would have a lot of upper arm strength.

Weedle McHairybug (talk) 14:33, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Putting aside, for the moment, the question of whether or not she has superhuman strength (and much of the argument is WP:OR, BTW), the question is a lot simpler. Do "reliable sources commonly and consistently define[1] the subject as having" superhuman strength (Wikipedia:Categorization#Articles)I am not seeing any indication of independent sources using this as a defining characteristic. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

How is that original research when it is very clearly shown in the film, and the writers already made clear they tried to make the underwater physics as realistic as possible? That's like listing Albert Wesker having superhuman strength is original research. I mean, if it were original research, I'd be saying Ariel was a male, when she clearly isn't. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 19:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

You haven't answered the question, though. Has any reliable source, other than you, mentioned her superhuman strength? You say that the filmmakers tried to replicate underwater physics accurate -- I agree, this has been mentioned in interviews and documentaries, but I don't recall anyone saying that she has superhuman strength. A cursory google search of "Albert Wesker superhuman strength" gives me five published articles in the first page that could be used as potential citations. "Ariel little mermaid superhuman strength" does not. AD (talk) 22:46, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Any explanation involving a character in a children's cartoon that involves underwater physics, whether or not you think magic was involved and arguments that "merpeople" would have strong upper bodies from "swimming around a lot" is synthesis, a subsection of WP:OR Again, this is beside the point: Reliable secondary sources do not consistently define the character as having superhuman strength. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. It doesn't matter. We do not have source independent of the movies regularly defining her with this characteristic. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:48, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Remind me of any independent sources from the Resident Evil franchise or Agent Smith from The Matrix franchises that specifically state they had superhuman strength or superhuman speed? Sometimes the duck argument (you know, if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and walks like a duck, its probably a duck) works in situations like this. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:55, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: Also, the film itself demonstrated it, which IS a reliable source. Again, the films/games themselves don't explicitly state Wesker and Smith's super strength, yet their superstrength was still made obvious. Same case here. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:56, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

EDIT2: And OR means basically crying wolf. In other words, lying. So no, its not OR, especially when the film already made clear her super strength, as well as Ariel's Beginning, which had Ariel kicking down an underwater door immediately after Sebastian mentioned that she was a "weak helpless girl." Weedle McHairybug (talk) 12:03, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Examples of independent sources for your example of Albert Wesker having superhuman strength: [1], [2], [3] and [4]. The burden of proof is on you to prove that Ariel has superhuman strength with references, see: WP:CHALLENGE. AD (talk) 13:07, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, other articles exist. Some of them are pretty good. Some suck. We are talking about this article.

Please assume good faith. I am not lying, nor do I see reason to believe anyone else here is lying.

Two editors disagree with you and have pointed to relevant guidelines (WP:SYN, Wikipedia:Categorization#Articles and WP:NOTDEFINING). While that's a small consensus, it is still a WP:CONSENSUS against including the category. Feel free to start a request for comment on the issue if you wish, but please do not edit against consensus. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 13:46, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

The films are good enough for references. What's with Wikipedia not accepting primary sources as enough? But fine, I'll find other sources if necessary. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:30, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

The question here is not whether there are reliable secondary sources, the question is whether reliable secondary sources commonly and consistently define the subject by this particular trait. From the primary sources, we could spend the rest of our natural lives dreaming up categories: Fictional characters who are right handed. Fictional characters without feet. Fictional characters who transform from a fictional creature to a human form. Fictional characters who lose their voices. This, I think you'll agree, would be pointless. Instead, categories are meant to reflect defining characteristics. Change Ariel from a mermaid to a horse and she's no longer Ariel; it's a defining characteristic. Change her hair from red to brown and she's still Ariel; hair color is not a defining characteristic. All of this is summarized in Wikipedia:DEFINING#Non-defining_characteristics. Rather than seeking sources to prove that Ariel has superhuman strength, it would be helpful to demonstrate that the existing reliable secondary sources used here consistently state this (if, in fact, they do). - SummerPhD (talk) 21:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Denmark?

I reverted an addition saying that Ariel is Danish, using this article as a reference, but the article looks to me like a fan analysis and isn't a reliable source. (WP:QUESTIONABLE) AD (talk) 22:17, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Moving to Ariel (Disney)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below and the results of other requests at Talk:Princess Jasmine, Talk:Cinderella (Disney character), and Talk:Mulan (Disney character). Dekimasuよ! 02:26, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

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Ariel (The Little Mermaid) → Ariel (Disney) – See: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 August 25 --76.175.67.121 (talk) 21:41, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

• Comment That has nothing to do with this article, since this article is not a franchise article, it is a fictional character article. If it were a franchise article, that might make sense, but it isn't, so a different rationale should be used. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 05:40, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Deletion of list of portrayers in the infobox

I just reverted an unexplained deletion by User:Sb1990 of the list of people who've officially portrayed Ariel from the infobox. If it's disputed, let's discuss it here! AD (talk) 07:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

The deletion of the actresses was actually started by me when I journeyed to completely reconstruct the article Belle (Disney), which was in a state of despair. I appreciate User:Sb1990 for trying to carry it out. I believe that since the Disney Princesses are and always will be best-remembered as animated characters and the article is in fact about the animated character, therefore very little else is said about these live-action renditions, why include them in the infobox? Mentioning them throughout the article is fine, but why include them in the infobox if they actually have very little to do with the animated character herself is my question?--Changedforbetter (talk) 15:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I prefer to be comprehensive, but that makes sense for the focus of the article. AD (talk) 23:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm glad you agree :)--Changedforbetter (talk) 20:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Younger and older age

I added how old she says she was in the original film but I am wondering if there is other data we could list about this. For events prior to the film there is either The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Beginning or The Little Mermaid (TV series). Does anyone know if either the prequel film or episodes contain references to Ariel's age? Does not specifically have to be a number but even something like her celebrating a birthday would indicate she's at most 15 in scenes prior to it.

The Little Mermaid II: Return to the Sea says "twelve years later" (Melody's age?) so that'd make Ariel at least 28 right? Still would like to go verify that first. 184.146.6.191 (talk) 22:02, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Portrayers in infobox - again

This is a Disney film character and non-Disney portrayals should not be listed here, specifically Once Upon a Time which is not a Disney series, but an ABC television series. Disney corporation owns ABC, but ABC is not Disney for its creative output. The musical theatre portrayals are many and varied and unnecessary for the infobox. § Broadway musical talks to this and is sufficient for this article. The focus of the article is on the animated film character. Other Disney film projects using the character are in scope. non-film and non-Disney are not. Projects that were never released don't belong anywhere. Geraldo Perez (talk) 19:38, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

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why the name?

Does anyone know why for all things in the world Disney chose for the Mermaid an evidently male name, and one evidently used before for a male air-spirit at that? (It's called Arielle in German, but I can't help feeling that it should have been that in English also, and the translators appeared as not so much translators but correctors in this case.)--2001:A61:20E1:C501:DC3C:60C2:FE67:EE63 (talk) 14:13, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

To be fair, Sebastian in the English version does pronounce it as Arielle. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 18:18, 5 August 2017 (UTC)