Talk:Aria (manga)/Archive 1

Archive 1 done --KrebMarkt 05:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Disambig

Needs disambaugation page. ARIA is linked to other articles too.

Sylphid

well we certainly forget the old dilvery man use air bike who are sylphid the air fairy.

Re: Article referrring to Sylphs -- motorised water-buses (vaporettos) are used on the major canals and for sightseers on the canal leading up to the Hill of Hope. On smaller canals oar-powered gondolas are used for deliveries. Akari's old gondola is used for this purpose after it is replaced with a new one (see Navigation 36 in Volume 8). The Sylphs provide an alternate form of delivery service in Neo-Venezia, not the only one. Air bikes are also used as flying cranes (again, see Navigation 36 where Akari's old gondola is airlifted away from Aria Company). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.177.122.150 (talk) 12:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

640 X 480 wallpapers not Fair Use

Found these 640 X 480 wallpapers are uploaded using intentionally wrong stubs to avoid detection for deletion. These are not album covers, comic covers or screenshots but wallpapers. I have deleted these images links and marked images "no source" so this article meet the wikipedia's official policies.

Ugh, if you're so going to be so righteous and gung ho, how about uploading a replacement first then, before nuking them? Just save the image itself in thumbnail size and use that or whatever. Just removing them is annoying and unhelpful. Too many anime wiki pages lack character pictures as it is, don't add to the problem. 72.94.50.148 06:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, did it myself. I trust you won't take issue with the licensing now. if you still do, I at the very least expect you to explain what would be fair, and upload them in place of what I have here. Jxh2154 07:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, those are screenshots of the recently released ARIA PS2 game - not wallpapers. Although they don't reflect the actual art style of the anime or the manga, it still can be considered fair use. I have gone to add the necessary information on each picture, but have not restored it because it doesn't reflect the real art style. Karn-b 14:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Quote source

A quote is used at the end of Akari Mizunashi's description, does anyone know which episode it is from? Directly naming the source will make this page look even better than it already is! Remy Suen 14:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

First episode of the anime, I don't know about the manga

About waves.

The trivia section says "No substantial waves are seen during the anime even though Aqua has two moons." For Mars, this would not be strange at all. The two moons around Mars are millions of times lighter than our moon. I guess they don't look very big from the Mars surface though (if seen at all) --Apoc2400 12:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, they look much smaller from the surface of Mars than our moon does; either way, though, they'd produce very little tides. But more of an issue is that waves aren't caused by tides in the first place, but winds. The statement is nonsensical and should be deleteed. Quasirandom 23:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. But I think the other main point here is that it's unsourced...Karn-b 16:05, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Even more, the first part also isn't accurate. There are no waves seen in the sounds of Neo-Venezia, except as wakes from boats and ships, but during an episode when Akari visits an island out in the Neo-Adriatic sea, there are waves on the shore. Quasirandom 18:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

In Ep3 of the first Aria anime run, Akari/Akia actually befriend little Alice after wittnessing her impressive navigation between heavy swells and big rocks. 91.83.1.68 (talk) 22:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: Quote source

It's from the first episode of anime(ARIA The Animation)

and from

1. AQUA voyage 2 Navigation 6 (new ver.)
2. ARIA voyage 3 Navigation 11

219.79.37.4 01:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

OVA release date

the ova is going to be release on 21-sept-2007

please refer to ARIA's official website (Japanese).

Pixy 132 01:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Athena's moniker?

Wouldn't "Siren" makes more sense as opposed to "Selene", considering her expertise? Could somebody confirm her official moniker?

Also, albeit through my limited Japanese skill, I feel that "天上謳声" means closer to something like "Voice of Heaven" rather than "Heaven Glory". Again, could somebody confirm this? - Scroogey McDucky 09:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Third season of anime announced

Per ANN, that is. I'd add this to the article, but that link (their own permalink, grumble grumble) doesn't work, and I haven't found another citation. Junichi Sato will direct again, with broadcast date not yet set. —Quasirandom 17:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Is the demographic in the sidebar correct?

It's listed as "Seinen." Now, I'm not an expert on the different demographic categories, I have a working knowledge, but I've read the Aria manga and it doesn't strike me as seinen at all. Maybe someone on more sure ground than I can find a more appropriate category because I don't think this one fits. 10:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, it is serialized in Comic Blade, a magazine aimed at males. ChuChu 13:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It's seinen all right -- as seinen as Yotsuba&! and Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou. That's the primary demographic of Comic Blade (see its article). —Quasirandom 14:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I note, btw, that even reviewers at The Comics Journal get confused and think Aria is shoujo. We need a citation on that seinen Real Soon Now. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:21, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, on further research, Comic Blade is actually identified as older shonen. Oy. I'm copying the demographic citation from the magazine page to here. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused on the demographic myself as it was originally serialized in a shoujo magazine called Monthly Stencil before it was transferred to Comic Blade. Unless the creator of the manga changed the story to aim it towards boys after the transfer, wouldn't it still be considered shoujo, or was it also a shounen manga while it was being published in a shoujo magazine?AjaaniSherisu (talk) 22:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure that Monthly Stencil was shoujo? It ran series like Kamui (which moved to Monthly Gangan Wing, Juvenile Orion, and Minekura's Bus Gamer (which moved to Comic Rex), all solidly older shounen, if not seinen. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

According to the Japanese page for Aria, the Japanese page for Monthly Stencil and for the English page for KAMUI itself states it's shoujo, it is. So I'm guessing it was a shoujo magazine.AjaaniSherisu (talk) 03:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Which English page for Kamui? I'm not seeing it on the Wikipedia article, and it's in Monthly Gangan Wing, which is definitely not shoujo. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

That would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamui_%28manga%29 ^_^, and it states that KAMUI was also previously published in Monthly Stencil. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 04:06, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, there in the lead -- I was looking in the infobox. Um. I confess, I'm still dubious, but I'll defer to your ability to translate the Japanese pages. —Quasirandom (talk) 04:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Possibly there is no narrow-beam target group any more. I mean it is practically Japan's Harry Potter, so almost everybody has to be somewhat up to date on it, in order to avoid embarrassment if Aria/Aqua topics emerge in daily casual conversation. There is no need to burn each other at the stake over the shonen /seinen / shoju debate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.83.1.68 (talk) 22:38, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

English licencing state of Aria manga?

The link in question states that Tokyopop obtained the rights to Aqua, not Aria, and ANN still has ADV as the licensor of Aria (although it has mysteriously disappeared from their online catalogue; which can only lead to idle speculation I guess); and the second statement about TP re-releasing the first 3 volumes of Aria before Aqua is rather dubious; Aqua vol 1 is slated for release early October 2007 with no mention of any Aria managa release by TP.

Serrin 15:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

It's been on my to-do list to track down the press release I saw that claimed what the article said -- that TP had taken up the license for Aria as well as Aqua. I can't say anything one way or another about whether reissuing vol 1-3 was in the announcement till I find it. —Quasirandom 16:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Or we could just wait a few months and see if Tokyopop releases it. Serrin 12:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's scheduled to be release next week, according Amazon and ANN. So it looks like a Go. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Both Aria and Aqua are on the Tokyopop website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.151.127 (talk) 09:54, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yup. And yanno, we should add the Aqua page to the External links. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Others medias, Video Games

We should also at some point add a list of the soundtrack albums and the like, as part of other media. Not to mention a small production section mentioning the most important people. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:25, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I note, btw, that the ariacompany.net website lists a profusion of soundtrack albums, a couple drama CDs, and several artbooks, posterbooks, and a "guidebook". (Not to mention, among the characters, what looks to be the Ai-chan who Akari writes too -- when does she show up in the amine???) Someone with more Japanese than I could fruitfully pick out the highlights for the article. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone have any information about the PS2 Aria game mentioned above? —Quasirandom (talk) 00:14, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

There are two games, one of the two to be released.

Aria the Natural : Mirage of far memory, 2006.9.28 First & Special édition, 2008.3.6 Value edition

http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/products/ARIA_The_Natural/

Aria the Origination : The Blue Planet Erushiero (Rough translation), 2008.6.26 (Announced release date)

http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/products/ARIA_The_Origination/

KrebMarkt(I hate to register) 2008.05.15

Integrated the links myself :(

"Erushiero" is "el cielo" ("the sky" in Spanish; it's kinda odd that the word is in Spanish, not Italian, but the Italian equivalent -- "il cielo" would be written with different katakana). "Aoi wakusei no erushiero" translates to "The Skies of the Blue Planet." Not that I think you should translate the titles of any games that don't have official English titles -- leave the titles in romaji or put English translations in parentheses. "Mirage of far memory", for example, is aesthetically a poor translation -- "A Mirage of Distant Memories" sounds far better. —75.110.76.163 (talk) 08:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Updated the game section, now it should be satisfactory. Thanks for your help

Removed signature expressions

I've removed the signature expressions section, in part because it's out of place in the list of chacters (icons are not characters) and in part because it's not an unusual thing in manga, and in part because it's not useful to someone who hasn't read the manga and not in need of explanation to someone who has. If others feel the info necessary, I suggest adding it to the individual character entries. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Episode lists

I've converted the episode lists into the format used by FA/GA anime articles. The template has a field for episode summary, which I included but commented out; for two episodes, where I remembered enough, I wrote descriptions, but leave the rest to others (it'll be a while before I have the time watch them again). Given the way the template works, the fields probably need to be uncommented all at once, rather than in pieces (you'll see what I mean if you try showing just the ones there).

Also, I started a table for the new season, which we can I hope fill in as they broadcast. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:41, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I've filled in "enough" fields to uncomment the summaries, with "to come" statements where I haven't gotten to them. Feel free to add what I haven't yet. As a rule of thumb, I try to keep summaries to two or at most three sentences. —Quasirandom (talk) 00:13, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Dystopian Manhome?

It looks like this anime series is not truly light-hearted at all. Akari makes comments like it is no longer possible to swim in Manhome's oceans or safe to play in the dirt on Earth and she only ever saw water in a swimming pool before coming to Mars/Aqua. The relocation of major Earth-Venice buildings to Neo-Venetia is also mentioned in episode 1 or 2 of Aria The Origination anime, so neoV is not just a copycat, but more like a massive rescue attempt, because Italy's Venetia is sinking.

It looks like Earth has seen some kind of worldwide disaster (toxic pollution, global warming, etc.) and there are several indirect comments in the anime suggesting life on Manhome is a hard burden and people have difficulty make ends meet. How much of this is explained in the manga, are there any reasons given? Is it true that Aria's Manhome is actually YKK's devastated Earth? Why wasn't planet Aqua fixed to force waters retreat from the 90%+ it occupies, so more earthlings could settle.

The article should possibly address these issues in one or two paragraphs. 91.83.1.68 (talk) 22:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

If reliable sources can be found that already address this, yeah. The point of Wikipedia, though, is not to be a place that first publishes analysis like that, but summarize what has already been analyzed. (My impression is that most cities in Manhome are now domed, rather than a YKK-style collapse. For the waters, IIRC, there's a comment somewhere that Mars had more water in the polar icecaps than expected, with the implication that once it all melted there was no putting it back in the genii's bottle. Though that begs the question of letting the salamanders cool it down a little to refreeze some.) —Quasirandom (talk) 22:51, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It WAS an on-going anime.

The article still lists the anime/manga as ongoing, even though Origination has finished for both. Supposedly it is truly over, as both of her cats have passed away in real life, so there is no more inspiration left. 91.83.1.68 (talk) 22:51, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Whoop -- looks like I missed a couple bits of ongoingness when I made those edits -- which now that I look, I see I only did on the episodes list. I think I have them all now. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Alice's first appearance in the manga.

In the manga, she actually made her very first appearance in the last chapter of Aqua vol. 2 (which I see, haven't been mentioned. Should that be pointed out or not? 80.212.151.195 21:59, 03 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but that was in an omake that was added in the Mag Garden reprint, which was published after her first magazine appearence in Aria -- with a note to see Aria for an explanation of who this is. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:13, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Unit cost?

Anybody has a figure for production costs of a single Aria anime episode? On a forum I found an outragous sum mentioned and claims the creators use a special Fujinon system to pastel colour all the scenery porn, which is more than one-third of all costs. Sure it must have been relatively expensive but I am not quite willing to believe that hype. 91.83.16.172 (talk) 14:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The truth is Aqua there!

The article doesn't make an adequate mention of the psychidelic/mysthical part of Aqua's storyline. Especially the Natural anime has a good portion of its time devoted to supernaturally catking-powered out-of-place events, e.g. time travel, time stop, extra-dimensional mazes, which only Akari is able to fully experience.

Not especially frightening ones, but with a certain intimidating mood that reminds me of X-files TV series somehow. Because of this, Aria should not be for little kids, who haven't gone to elementary school at least. 91.83.16.172 (talk) 15:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I suspect those will be hard to source until the anime is released in English, later this year. Reviewers tend to notice age-appropriate issues. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Symbolism not addressed.

Neo-Venezia is decorated with weird rounded geometric patterns (like the bottom of floating island Ukiyama and the canal walls somewhere). IMHO these are tangentially similar to some celtic runestone carvings I saw in a museum. Is that notable? What is the significance of the rather silly-looking color patterns of those undine unifoms? 91.83.18.109 (talk) 17:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

For correspondences like that, it's not notable unless a reliable source out there has already noted them. In this case, what the mangaka or produces claim to have intended by the patterns would be perfect, if you can find it. (I've wondered at the uniform significance myself.) —Quasirandom (talk) 17:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Alice in horrorland

The article makes no metion of Alice-chan's obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is probably more important than her tiny singing skills. A whole episode in the Natural run is devoted to her shadow-jumping obsession and the resulting bizarre behaviour. She cannot sleep without playing solo paper-rock-scissors first and winning it. She is also a sociopath or at least a human interactions "autist" and does not like to talk to anybody but Akari and Aika-sempai. She is a really troubled person. 91.83.18.109 (talk) 17:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Art book, poster books, etc external links

There are some external links with presentation or reviews of the various Aria related art book and co because i don't feel myself up to the task to include them in the main Aria article i'm putting them here so more experimented wiki users can edit the page accordingly.

ARIA The Natural Perfect Guide Book, review by Adun, 2007.01.04 http://www.moemoerabu.net/2007/01/04/aria-the-natural-perfect-guide-book/

ARIA Premium Poster Book 2, review by Adun, 2007.01.04 http://www.moemoerabu.net/2007/01/04/aria-premium-poster-book-2/

ARIA Premium Poster Book 3, review by Adun, 2008.01.06 http://www.moemoerabu.net/2008/01/06/aria-premium-poster-book-3/

Monthly Undine #2 & #3, presentation by Adun, 2006.08.22 http://www.moemoerabu.net/2006/08/22/monthly-undine-volume-2-and-volume-3/

Monthly Undine #4 - #6, presentation by Adun, 2008.04.22 http://www.moemoerabu.net/2008/04/22/monthly-undine-vol-4-6/

I think those links are pertinents to whose who want more graphical information about the contents of those various products regardless the "die-hard" fan attitude of the reviewer. KrebMarkt(I hate to register) 2008.05.15

Added the links in for each related items —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 08:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Soundtracks, Drama CD, Radio Drama Cd

It'd be nice if someone could root out all the OSTs OPs and EDs relating to Aria too. Since music is one of the biggest things involving the show 87.102.16.183 (talk) 23:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I am willing to help however i can't do it alone.

So far those i found :

ARIA The ANIMATION ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK

ARIA The ANIMATION OP Single - Undine [Makino Yui]

ARIA The ANIMATION ED Single - Rainbow [ROUND TABLE feat. Nino]

ARIA The ANIMATION Drama CD I BLUE

ARIA The ANIMATION Drama CD II RED

ARIA The ANIMATION Drama CD III ORANGE

ARIA The ANIMATION Perfect Guidebook CD

ARIA The NATURAL ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK

ARIA The NATURAL Vocal Song Collection

ARIA The NATURAL OP Single - Euforia [Makino Yui]

ARIA The NATURAL ED Single - Natsu Machi [ROUND TABLE feat. Nino]

ARIA The NATURAL Drama CD I

ARIA The NATURAL Drama CD II

ARIA The NATURAL Perfect Guidebook CD

ARIA The NATURAL ~Tooi Kioku no Mirage~ PS2 OP ED Single - BLUE BLUE WAVE [KAORI]

ARIA The OVA ~ARIETTA~ OP ED Single - Nana iro no Sora wo [SONOROUS & Hazuki Erino]

ARIA The ORIGINATION Drama CD II - Tsuki

ARIA The ORIGINATION Drama CD I - Yuki

ARIA The ORIGINATION Piano Collection II - Dipartenza

ARIA The ORIGINATION Original Soundtrack

ARIA The ORIGINATION ED Single - Kin no Nami Sen no Nami [Arai Akino]

ARIA The ORIGINATION OP Single - Spirale [Makino Yui]

ARIA The ORIGINATION Perfect Guidebook CD (upcomming/scheduled)

I should have missed a few, because in additions of the usuals soundtracks there are drama cd + bonus cd included in the perfect guides so it's harder to track them all.

It will require its own article aria_(manga)_soundtracks

KrebMarkt(I hate to register) 2008.06.07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.244.148.40 (talk) 16:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Added the few albums descriptions need people to check the spelling + someone to create a specific aria sountracks article.

KrebMarkt(I hate to register) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.244.148.40 (talk) 20:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Done the job at 95% miss Kanji title for Ashita, Yuugure Made & miss also the Aria video game single

Done also the raw work for the Drama + Radio CD, if you want to develop more, please have fun here :

http://aria.ffsky.cn/drama_anime_1st.htm

http://aria.ffsky.cn/drama_anime_2nd.htm

http://aria.ffsky.cn/drama_radio.htm

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARIA_The_STATION_Tricolore

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARIA_The_STATION_Due —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 17:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to those who edited & streamlined the Soundtracks & Dramas parts.

We are getting closer to the B level of quality —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 06:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Once again the issue to have a separate article for the soundtracks has been raised. I'm not skilled enough to do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 08:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Question: the infobox and the heading for the first Aria Piano Collection give different subtitles -- which is correct? —Quasirandom (talk) 21:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Splitting the soundtracks

Yeah, splitting these off looks like a reasonable proposal -- there's so much of it, the article gives undue weight to the soundtracks. However, without a lot more information about the who and what and how of the making of these albums, a detached list isn't going to fly for very long. Especially without information that supports the notability of the soundtracks, such as reviews/commentary or sales or charting. So I have an alternate proposal:

1. Collapse the lists using the {{Tracklist}} template.
2. Convert the infoboxes to prose introductions to each album, giving the who/what/when.
3. Convert the singles to prose and and move them to the intro of the album it's from.

That way, we have the time to collect the reviews/commentary/sales/charting info to support a possible later split. Thoughts, anyone? —Quasirandom (talk) 16:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

There - did a demo version on the first season soundtracks. Personally, I like it a lot -- much cleaner. Unless someone objects/reverts or does it first, I'll apply the same treatment to the rest of the albums (probably later this week). —Quasirandom (talk) 17:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Please go ahead and do it. The current article looks horrible with the extended soundtrack list. After putting more details into the soundtrack part, then I think we can separate it from the main article.Stevefis (talk) 02:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

@Quasirandom

There are few sites listing the host of Aria related soundtracks here one of these :

http://aria.ffsky.cn/cddvd.htm

Long term goal is obviously to have a separated article for the soundtracks but the lack of references to back it is going to be a serious handicap KrebMarkt —Preceding comment was added at 08:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

So it sounds like we have a (modest) consensus against splitting the soundtrack info at this time, until we have more info. And for me to continue with the formatty bits. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Based on this discussion, I've removed the split proposal tag. Something to consider later, if/when we get more information about sales/reception/et cet. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

There - reformatted. Next up, compressing that drama CD list (by converting to prose for the most part). KrebMarkt, do the drama CDs produced in conjunction with the anime seasons use the same voice actors as the anime? (With the ones done beforehand different from those.) And do you know which are adaptations from the manga and/or anime episodes? —Quasirandom (talk) 20:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I compiled the data from 2 websites one japanese the other chinese from what i read about it, it is a mixed bag of adatation of the manga chapters and original dramas shows. Thanks for your formating works QuasirandomKrebMarkt

Aqua/Aria is no longer a fantasy series, it is now officially science fiction!

NASA satellite lander digs up water ice on mars:

http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=22&month=06&year=2008 http://spaceweather.com/swpod2008/22jun08/ice_gone_blink1.gif

If we are lucky we can live long enough to ride in Alicia-san's gondola! 82.131.210.162 (talk) 09:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Aria the Origination EP 5.5

Do you think a link to a review/summary of that episode is required ? Because some people might not been aware of the existence of that bonus ep 5.5 available only on the DVD edition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 17:13, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Yanno, I'm not sure about this. It would help, maybe, if we cited the "N/A" date with a reference that says it's a DVD-only episode. —Quasirandom (talk) 04:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Aria goes dutch

It looks like Venice will get another undine after Alexandra Hai. This is probably no mistake, Alice-chan is of dutch ancestry, too. 91.83.26.202 (talk) 00:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

http://in.reuters.com/articlePrint?articleId=INIndia-33568820080514

WP:MoS

Any suggestion to be more in line of the WP:MoS are welcome. Thanks --KrebMarkt 08:00, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Just glancing at it in passing, one thing to watch for is putting the references after the punctuation mark. (Good job, though, in scaring up the references!) Also, since I initially added the Reception section, the WP:MOS-AM was changed to put it after, instead of before, the Media section. I'll poke at the article in more detail once I'm on my own system instead of borrowing a computer. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I was told that every single item need to be sourced to prove its existence & its release date if not existence & release date can be questioned. Transforming the article into a Christmas tree was not my intention. I will take care of the punctuation thing.--KrebMarkt 19:22, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

You were told pretty much the truth. For a franchise as extensive as this one, it necessarily becomes a scatter of blue bracket numbers. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:21, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking that we need to replace the "uglies tables" used in some parts of the media section with real prose. While it is NOT as urgent as filling the development & reception part but it will be required if we want to hit the B rating for this article.--KrebMarkt 08:15, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I think you're right. I noodled a bit by converting the track listings to the current format, but gave up there. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:40, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Started the blow up & rebuild program with the Radio CDs please feel free to correct and/or re-write as English isn't my native language.--KrebMarkt 19:23, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Will do. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:52, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I've given the Radio CDs a quick copyedit, but we need more information about the initial broadcast of the radio shows -- like who, what, when, what station. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Through the web radio onsen.ag & animate TV . However they have scrapped most Aria resources from their sites all that remain item belonging to the news list. People can also look for the Japanese wikipedia articles for details but again we hit the sourcing wall. I can't just copy & past the broadcast dates of each season without a reliable source.

Ref 1 : http://www.onsen.ag/blog/index.php?s=aria&Submit=%E6%A4%9C%E7%B4%A2

Ref 2 : http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARIA_The_STATION_Due

Ref 3 : http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARIA_The_STATION_Tricolore

Edited : --KrebMarkt 17:19, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

More things to chew before thinking of splitting the soundtracks :

MOS:DISCOG & Discography_of_Final_Fantasy_I_and_II

While the standard for anime related soundtracks can't the same, we may use them as guidelines.--KrebMarkt 08:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, interesting -- hadn't met that guideline before. Something to chew on, yes. And possibly point the Anime project towards as something to consider, given the number of albums that many franchises seem to emit. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

That still not an official MoS guideline. It's still in discussion and not all there criteria are suitables or relevant for anime.

I'm still in awe in the front of the Final fantasy discography which got the GA.

The first anime related discography to get GA rating will set the criteria for the rest of the anime audio CDs. --KrebMarkt 17:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I finally managed to understand how the Oricon free service worked. We can get the peak ranking for the aria singles & albums now.--KrebMarkt 11:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Added the peak rank w/ refs for the soundtracks. Didn't not add the rank for some drama CD but it's shocking that one drama CD made it to the top 50 albums--KrebMarkt 09:18, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Dude. Excellent work. Between that and the reception and getting started on expanding the manga volumes, I'm suddenly feeling a lot better about the state of the article. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Check my user page for my first dabbling with the WP:Discography info box.

I think that it will be pertinent to say artist=Aria franchise in infobox --KrebMarkt 16:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Done with the video game section. It can be expanded a bit with more information from the starting context--KrebMarkt 09:54, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Added the two video games guides to the section--KrebMarkt 08:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Done with the art books & posters books. --KrebMarkt 11:07, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Done with the guide books section. Please feel free to do any re-write & edit to make this section easier to read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 14:44, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

There ya go. BTW, I think the Monthly Undine section is okay as is -- or at least, a table is appropriate, given it's a serial like the manga. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:06, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

That less prose brainstorming. I'm withholding the fictive released date of every issue until something is done about the Aqua calendar system as date like "month 18" 2302 or "month 14" (A.C) 0076 would be meaningless. Beside those dates are flawed as they tried to be in conjunction of key Aqua-Aria events but failed miserably save the first issue which coincide with Akari arrival on Aqua. (I won't put that speculation in the article however. WP isn't for that)--KrebMarkt 19:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we should be putting any in-universe dates on those issues. Even aside from being on the trivial side, the in-universe equivalents would have appeared over several years, yet the real versions are numbered sequentially making them six months apart. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Lets keep as it is now then. I'm not myself an amateur of anything half-cooked like those dates --KrebMarkt 19:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Article size wise, we are at 42.5KB of prose, so we have still some margin before someone toss up the WP:SIZE argument. References/sources & externals links weight more, around 55KB.--KrebMarkt 07:41, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The albums infobox

I feel that we can blow/remove the infobox for the two piano albums Stagione & Dipartenza as every information are already in the prose form. --KrebMarkt 20:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I'll trust your judgment on this one -- I don't have an opinion, really. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:49, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I will keep them for now as at least one user want the soundtracks to be in line of WP:album even if it belong more to the WP:Discog --KrebMarkt 11:53, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Terms in japanese ?

I took them from the Aria characters list in the japanese wikipedia. one tab the japanese article the other its half-cocked translation by google
At least the japanese terms are the good ones (unless Japaneses screwed up the Aria vocabulary which i doubt)

ペア Pair ?
シングル Single ?
プリマ Prima ?

水先案内人 Pilot ?
(ウンディーネ）Undine ?

火炎之番人 Flame Keeper ?
(サラマンダー）Salamander ?

地重管理人 They manage weight area ?
(ノーム）Norm ?

風追配達人 courier add wind ?
(シルフ）SHIRUFU ?
--KrebMarkt 18:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

地重管理人: Gravity managers風追配達人: Hmm, wind chasers something...

(ノーム): Possibly gnome, the phonetic for that is no-mu, which sounds more like gnome than norm.

Shirufu: I think thats the Japanese phonetic for Sylph. So the four classes are undine, salamander, gnome and sylph. --Prototype00 (talk) 22:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Yup, I think that's pretty much it. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

References

I'm working on the references stuffs so if we split the article we will have less hassle due to the lack of references
My progression so far :
Manga done Need references for the ADV volumes & the scheduled Vol 5 Tokyopop
Soundtracks Done references links to Victor Entertainment or Geneon Entertainment
Drama CD Done references links to Frontier Work
Radio CD Done references links to Frontier Work
Various books & guide Done references links to Mag Garden
Video games Done references links to Alchemist company
The number of references explodes to +100. We need more plot, characters, reviews, reception, related references.
Updated : --KrebMarkt 10:18, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I've been poking about for a reference for the ADV dates, but so far haven't found anything beyond the year. And, of course, the ADV web page is even more useless than T-pop's. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:41, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Done not a single item of the Aria franchise lacks a reference. --KrebMarkt 05:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Augmented version of the soundtracks section

I'm working on an upgrade of the soundtracks section with more information & references.
I progressed so far up to the Stagione soundtrack and what is after remains to be done. check it here : upgrade soundtrack section
The External link part is 80% done and i made an example of rank table.
Feel free to leave me some feedback as it is experimental and totally in the gray area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 17:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

To my eye, it looks like it's coming along. Though to be honest, I've got zero experience in the style guidelines for discographies. It may be worth asking for an informal (or formal) peer review. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The difficulty lie that anime soundtracks can't fit rationally to either the WP:Album & the WP:DISCOG. So we are at borrowing idea from the only video game discography that made to GA : Discography of Final Fantasy I and II and the fellow ones.

The weakness comes from lack of development content & reception/review content, so it's C regardless the MOS guideline used.

For the development part, i hope that the DVD release bonus will drop some information.

Anime miss badly a reliable source for anime soundtrack reviews that doesn't offer also to download the soundtracks illegally.

By the way did you know that Choro Club did one Yokohama Kaidashi Kikō anime album. More connection between Aria & YKK :) --KrebMarkt 20:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh that's why Choro Club had sounded vaguely familiar -- they did the soundtrack to the second YKK OVA series. Thanks. As for anime soundtracks, ANN has intermittently reviewed soundtrack albums in the Hai Fidelity column, but it doesn't look like they've touched Aria's music yet. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Done as far i can do. Updating main article with that works. Some part won't be implemented as they are more suited to a spin-out audio article.--KrebMarkt 10:38, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Naming

I'm just a random passerby, but I couldn't help but be struck: it seems to me that this article is both too large and is also badly named. This page covers in fair detail:

1. A character list
2. The 14-volume manga
3. 1 OVA
4. 3 TV series
5. Aria-related vocabulary
6. 8 OSTs
7. 4 drama CDs
8. 2 video games
9. 9 books
10. >=2 novels
11. 1 magazine
12. ... (I probably missed something)

In case my point isn't clear, perhaps it would be warranted to split some things out and either make this genuinely a 'Aria (manga)' article, or just rename it something more appropriate like 'Aria (franchise)'. --Gwern (contribs) 18:56 29 October 2008 (GMT)

I think we should do at least one of the following: split the character page, get rid of ISBN infos or move it somewhere else, or split the soundtrack/drama CD page.Stevefis (talk) 21:25, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

The (manga) in the title comes from WP:MOS-AM, which has articles focus on the first format for naming and organizational purposes. Unfortunately, Aria is a really common title, and less specific forms run into disambiguation problems. I'm all for splitting off the manga publication and character information into separate articles, and the latter could even sustain it with a suitable lead that asserted the notability of the cast, but the former needs more info before it could suvive as a separate article -- specifically, volume summaries and more sourced details about licensing in all languages. Unfortunately, lists of soundtrack albums have a very bad history of surviving AFDs as not being independently notable, unless there's sourced reviews or other notability information -- at that point, they get judged by WP:MUSIC. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:37, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

The OSTs might have a problem surviving, but there's no reason one couldn't split out articles on the manga, the 4 animes, the character list (at least, assuming the dozens of Aria media generally use the same set of characters), and probably articles on the 2 video games as well. Then this main article could cover the franchise in general, and shelter sub-articles/sections on the media which might have trouble on its own.

If I might say so, this general strategy has worked out well for the Eva articles. Certainly, Aria seems to be getting into Eva territory with its sales & spinoffs & merchandising. --Gwern (contribs) 00:11 30 October 2008 (GMT)

Well, the anime episodes are already split off -- what more were you thinking off spinning out? As for the manga and the characters, definitely. I'd've been putting off starting those myself because of the effort needed, and I've been distracted by other projects. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I view the article as a kind of staggering area, we badly need to be well prepared before splitting it. I prefer not splitting rather than half-cocked child-articles ready to be shotted down by Afd or Merge & Redirect. That why i burned a whole week-end putting references & sources like wild.--KrebMarkt 08:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:39, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Fiscals info?

How did the Aria anime work out as a venture? I cannot see how it was expected to turn a profit in the first place, considering the narrow target audience, the lack of export possibility due to the lot of dubbing and music work needed for foreign TV adaptation and its generally unsuitable nature for fast food merchandise franchising, unlike a Dragon Ball or Haruhism series.

I can't imagine anyone making 1000+ minutes of quality animation just because it is so nice. Who invested and based on what logic? That info should be in the article, since Aria was definitely costly, the same amount of work could make 150 parts of Clover and Honey or so. 82.131.210.162 (talk) 21:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Where did you have the cost per episode information ?

We want it to develop the article with the reference source please ;)

Concerning the sells it does sells well around +8,000 copies per DVD for the two first seasons and Arietta & Origination got the +10,000 copies per DVD. Break even point is around 5000 copies per DVD.

The music and the drama sold well too, not everyday that one drama CD ranks 48th on a national chart like Oricon.

Aria merchandising isn't happy meal : 2 video games, 4 artbooks often sold out, 3 posters book (58 Euros on Ebay minimum), 6 fake magazines with goodies. I forgot the infamous set of umbrella with the daring black gondola & white gondola posters sketches

Aria may be a niche market anime but its fans are olders than average and more willing to purchases products of the franchise generating more way money per fan. And bottom line : few animes that will entice someone to make a pilgrimage but Aria did it.--KrebMarkt 22:23, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Last CD audio ?

Flying Dog through Victor Entertainment released one last Eri Kawai anime related audio CD, 24 December 2008.
Out of the 16 tracks, 13 are Aria related with 4 coming from the Aria the Concert and the cover of the album was draw by Amano Kozue.
I'm pondering whatever or not including that item to the soundtracks list as it is not officially labeled as an Aria product.
Ref 1 : http://www.jvcmusic.co.jp/-/Discography/A007384/VTCL-60083.html
Ref 2 : http://anime.geocities.jp/st_nht/Seiyuu/Ka/himawari.html
--KrebMarkt 17:27, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Time marker - Time passing in Aqua/Aria

Amano Kozue has been careful about the time marker & time passing references in Aqua/Aria
A 24 months calendar as Mars's Orbital period is 686.971 days (ref Aria Vol 1, Nav 1)
That makes each season a 6 months one.

Every volume of Aqua/Aria represents around 6 months/1 Aqua season time ?
I'm sure of that fact from Aqua vol 1 to Aria vol 6 (i have the references) but i need confirmation for the later volumes 6-12.
--KrebMarkt 11:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

However, the two volumes of Aqua take most (but not all) of a year. You are right that Amano always explicitly marks the passage of seasons. Which means we ought to be able to come up with the characters' ages at the end of the story, or at least state somewhere how long the story lasts in series time. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I have Aqua 1-2 & Aria 1-6 French edition. In the first navigation on every vol save the first, Akari always state which season she is in.

Aqua Vol 2, Nav 6, page 7 => First long (hinting the 6 months long season) summer & the Aqua date is "month 14" day 1 year 2301.

Aria Vol 1, Nav 1, page 6 => First autumn

Aria Vol 2, Nav 6, page 5 => First winter

Aria Vol 3, Nav 11, page 5 => Second spring

Aria Vol 4, Nav 16, page 3 => Second summer

Aria Vol 5, Nav 21, page 3 => Second autumn

Aria Vol 6, Nav 26, page 3 => Second winter

Aria Vol 7, Nav 31 => spring (from english scanlation)

Aria Vol 8, Nav 36 => summer (from english scanlation)

Aqua Vol 1, Nav 1, is tricky but Akari arrived on Aqua the 3 April 2301 (page 6, on Akari's computer screen) which means spring. In addition converting that date in Aqua 'stardard' would "month 8" day 3 2301 and compared with Aqua Vol 2 date and you get the 6 months.

That date stuff can give info about how much time elapsed by the end of the manga and how old are some characters by the end of Aria.

Writing in development part about the 24 months Aqua year & 6 months in concise way is doable as the references would be tossed in the bottom of the articles. When the manga volumes will have its separate child-article, we can also add the fictive season of each volumes & the year.

It will also have some impact on the Monthly undine section as every monthly undine issue has a fictive release date. I didn't put them in their section.

That not my personal research but something stated and discussed in various Aria related forums. I'm just lining up the data & references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 18:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

To further the discussion manga time progression should be compared with its anime counterpart.

The anime acknowledge that 1 martian year = 2 terran years (Aria the Animation, episode 12)

Each anime season takes a bit less than one martian year (I won't enter in details) and the total is roughly 3 martian years (6 terran years) which is the same amount of time of Aria manga. Aqua manga have been dealt by the Arieta OVA.

For perspective it took Akari 7 years to become prima Undine & only 4 years for Alice.--KrebMarkt 09:00, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The manga also mentions that Martian Aquan years are twice as long as Earth Manhome years. Hmm -- so Akari is 22 at the end? Funny how, while we get a strong sense of the turning seasons, the characters don't seem to age. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

We should left out ending ages as we don't know when the characters profiles refer to. Alice could be either 21 or 18 years old depending from where you starting to count either the first Aqua or the Aria vol 3 where she appear for the first time. Safer to just give the age from each profile, include the passing time notion in Aria and let the reader/watcher think about it to death like i do now.--KrebMarkt 17:13, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed -- age at introduction, if known, and the overall passage of time of the series. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The chronology for the anime :

Arietta flashback (Akari arrival & debut) summer uniform

First new year eve for Akari (See Aria the Animation Ep 13, a change of uniform should have occurred off screen)

Start of Aria the animation summer uniform=> Ep 8 change to winter uniform

The Animation Ep 13, 2nd new year eve for Akari

Start of the Natural Ep1 : Carnival still in winter uniform

The Natural Ep6 change to summer uniform => Ep 25 change to winter uniform

The Natural Ep26 new year eve is coming again

Start of the Origination Ep1 : Carnival still in winter uniform

The Origination Ep5 change to summer uniform => Ep10 change to winter uniform

The Origination Ep13 ends with snowflakes falling.

From the start of the Animation Akari changed 5 time her uniform a bit less than 6 terran years elapsed.

For the Arietta/Aqua before the start of Aria, we have a bit more than one year.

The total is 7 years, the same as the manga. Now how to explain that mess without falling into the original research trap--KrebMarkt 08:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I edited down what you added to the Development section, making it an appendage to Amano's stated desire to show appreciation for the seasons -- this seemed the best way to include it, showing that it's an important thing to cover, without encroaching on original research territory. Along the way, I had to trim down the examples of showing time passing to a couple "telling details," as writers sometimes put it. I'm not sure that fireworks and New Years are the best to use, but they are a neat summer/winter pair; it would help if there are later fireworks or New Years chapters we could also cite, showing it's a cyclical thing. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Here probably the sole example : Aqua vol 1, Nav 3: The City Submerged then Aria vol 3, Nav 15: Festa del Bocolo repetition of the Aqua Alta. There are 4 volumes apart, one martian year. Amano avoided to use twice the same event, hopefully for us the Festa del Bocolo is an event occurring during the Aqua Alta.

I will extend that thread to the anime adaptation --KrebMarkt 17:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Nice catch the fireworks. Should we put in the Aqua Alta too or one example of recurring event is enough ?--KrebMarkt 20:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm not sure at the moment. Possibly I'll have a better sense, or at least more of an opinion, once we get (more of) the manga summaries in. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:19, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok. Beside we have more avenues to buff up the development section. --KrebMarkt 22:24, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Alicia is 35.5 earth-years old (she is explicitly mentioned as being 19 martian years old and her age does show in the Natural candlelight episode, she wears glasses, looks like Akari grandmother). The ARIA story takes place between 2301-2303 AD (Earth-years) according to the last issue's cover page postscript. The story starts with Akari arriving as a 15 Earth-year old, Alice is 14, Aika is 15,5. Otherwise the timeline is totally messed up, e.g. 10-year old Aika meets single Alicia in ep02 and then 5-year old Aika meets single Akira in Origination episode "Clover" at a time when Alicia is already prima undine, which is an obvious contradiction. 82.131.210.162 (talk) 20:47, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure that's 19 Martian years? The other characters, even Aquan natives, are given ages in Terrestrial years; and too, Aika at around 10 met Alicia as a Single, when she would have been in her mid-teens. (As for those glasses, I took that as a sign that she ordinarily wears contacts but had taken them off for bed.) —Quasirandom (talk) 21:12, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

We stick with just giving the age figuring on characters profile and no more as the character aging is one of the most contested/discussed issue (Are we doing that right now ?). One mistake was to have the manga starts with a terran year 2301 (Aqua vol 1) and ends with 0076 A.C. (Aria vol 12). Telling how old is a character at the end fails too easily into the original research category.

No need to bother readers with things that hasn't reach consensus among Aria manga experts, that use too much reasoning failing into original research and lack reliable source to back it. I already burnt out hours of my wikipedian life in it so No More.--KrebMarkt 22:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Characters profiles extended

I will give a bit more than that. Here the official character profile w/ sources :

Aria Pokoteng : Martian-cat, Weight 5Kg, Birthday ? (source : Aqua Vol 1)

Hime M. Granzchesta : Terran-cat, Weight 1.3Kg, Birthday 5 August (source : Aqua Vol 2)

Akari Mizunashi : Height 1m55, Age 15, Blood type A, Birthday 30 January, Aria Company N°4 (source : Aria Vol 1, Monthly Undine #6)

Alicia Florence : Height 1m65, Age 19, Blood type A, Birthday 30 October, Aria Company N°1 (source : Aria Vol 2, Monthly Undine #2)

Aika S. Granzchesta : Height 1m60, Age 16, Blood type O, Birthday 2 February, Himeya N°8 (source : Aria Vol 3, Monthly Undine #5)

Alice Carroll : Height 1m45, Age 14, Blood type B, Birthday 1 September, Orange Planet N°18 (source : Aria Vol 4, Monthly Undine #4)

Akatsuki Izumo : Height 1m78, Age 18, Blood type O, Birthday 8 January (source : Aria Vol 5)

Akira E. Ferrari : Height 1m68, Age 20, Blood type O, Birthday 29 July, Himeya N°27 (source : Aria Vol 6, Monthly Undine #1)

Albert "Al" Pitt : Height 1m40, Age 19, Blood type AB, Birthday 20 May (source : Aria Vol 7)

Athena Glory : Height 1m70, Age 21, Blood type AB, Birthday 24 December, Orange Planet N°36 (source : Aria Vol 8, Monthly Undine #3)

Udo Ayanokohji the 51st : Height 1m85, Age 18, Blood type O, Birthday 8 August (source : Aria Vol 9)

Akino Ametsuchi : Height 1m40, Age 50, Blood type B, Birthday 23 September (source : Aria Vol 10)

Namihei Anno : Height 1m48, Age 55, Blood type O, Birthday 23 August (source : Aria Vol 11)

Cait-Sith : Species ?, Sex distinction ?, Weight ?, Birthday ? (source : Aria Vol 12)

Ai : Height ?, Age ?, Blood type ?, Birthday ?, Aria Company N°2 ? (source : Aria the Animation perfect guide book, Aria Vol 12 Last page, see comment)

President Maa is missing but i can give the french wikipedia information : Martian-Cat, Weight 1.2Kg, Birthday 22 November (Unsourced)

Comment 1 : Every Undine has a number in their company. In the manga volumes that number is draw right onto the paddle of each undine, it is not explicit. However it is explicit in the monthly undine that explain my double sourcing. For Ai case her number is right it the very last page of the manga display 2 paddles one is N°4 Akari, the other N°2 is Ai obviously.

Comment 2 : French Aria Wikipedia chose to set each character age from the volume where their profile appears. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 20:12, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Our fr.wiki friends are sensible. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Soundtracks discussion

I will try to explain my current position of the soundtracks.

• Sourcing :

1 Reference for the existence & release date of the CD

1 Reference for the Oricon ranking if the CD ranked

1-(2) Reference(s) for the content of the CD namely, aside of the performers, the ones who wrote the lyrics, made the music scores and the arrangements

• Quality of the sourcing :

Reference on label website is RS without question

Oricon is the Japanese chart so it RS for CDs ranking

For the content i use either Oricon or Studio Neko-Han-Ten

While Studio Neko-Han-Ten is personal website, it RS for the content of the CDs as it is translation of the CDs booklet and there is rigor in this site see User guide. If required i may double up Studio Neko-Han-Ten references with ones from Oricon but that simply lengthen the already long list of references.

• Formating :

Tracklist template have two fixed columns lyrics & writing being anime music, not much lyrics, i only used lyrics column for the vocal album in others situation i added them in part of the note. A third column others can be personalized, i used it for the arrangement and the performers. The issue is the size of the column which is fixed so still have not good looking at all tables. I didn't stack lyrics information inside the writing as it wasn't in the intent of the template but it can be done if it is easier to read this way.

Album infobox are keep for now but i wish badly to get rid of them in some future as they break the overall article appearance :(

Tracklists thanks to collapse option are less intrusive but they could be removed for most albums the 3 ost + 2 piano album with minimal loss of information as most is covered by the proses.

• Only in spin-off article :

Charts tables, 3 of them : soundtracks albums, singles & drama albums.

Asserting facts like Choro Club having worked previous on YKK ost or Aria The Concert —Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 19:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

That seems sensible. Given space and how so few have lyrics, slipping that credit into the notes field makes sense. (I'm still digesting a few of the newer reviews, as well as reviewing the older ones, by way of expanding the Reception section a bit. And with Natural part 1 soon to be in everybody's clutches, we should have more Development info. But I digress.) —Quasirandom (talk) 19:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Time to split?

Unlike the last time this was proposed, I think we've done enough work that we'll have sustainable list articles for the manga and soundtracks if they're split off. At any rate, I'm up for revising the Lead of a manga chapter list (to give more context, once it's been taken away from the article) and make sure all the referencing has been copied over. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and tagged for a split, just so you know. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 02:02, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

That's what I was responding to -- clicky the Discuss link and all that. —Quasirandom (talk) 02:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

(Department of holy freakin' nouns: I just noticed we're now over 200 references!) —Quasirandom (talk) 02:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

And 140 kb! (BTW, some of the refs look like full refs with identical names, I think it would be a good idea to have a bot run through and check for them for us). 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 03:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Split Time Woot

Manga release first then we re-assess the situation.

Audio is potential second candidate but no mandatory as for now, we never managed to put a anime audio article to GA.

@Dinoguy1000 I put most of the refs on the article as one refs per item (books, cds, etc..). One more per ranked cds. One more per cds details. The number of references sky rocketed. So bot to help us to check those refs would help.

KrebMarkt 06:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't disagree about doing the manga split first. What bots are available to assist? —Quasirandom (talk) 14:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

There's one I've run into a couple times in the past that would list duplicate refs on the talk page, but I can't remember the name of the bot or the articles (might've been Dragon Ball or Naruto, but it's just been too long). 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 19:42, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

At least, we have the one for checking if refs links are still working. [1]. KrebMarkt 21:32, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

So ... split the manga list off now? —Quasirandom (talk) 21:14, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

When you feel it ready Maestro ;) KrebMarkt 21:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Since everything else that would be needed shouldn't be added until it's a separate list, I think so. Leave behind the current introductory paragraphs, which will become part of the Lead of the list. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Done, at least the basic work. Feel free to spackle any stray holes I've left in my wake, and paint the walls and ceiling. And I'm pretty sure we need to add some more referencing to the list lead. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

(If we ever split off the characters as a list, we're going to have a tonne of wikilinks to clean up.) —Quasirandom (talk) 15:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Great job, i still don't know what is missing to the chapter list to be a B rated list.

Even after splitting the manga chapters we are still at 131KB. So i guess soundtracks are next but i want to discuss how much of the soundtrack we should split.

• Case 1 Soundtracks only : it have semblance of lead and there are development materials thanks to the DVD bonuses. We can made a B article out off it. The main article will be at 90KB after split.
• Case 2 Whole audio (soundtracks + Drama + Radio): No balanced lead and development as we don't have much materials to cover the drama and the radio CDs but we can gain more room main article size being down to 79KB.

I'm not very motivated to split characters as doing it right is very tricky so i think that we may need a peer review at some point because size issues is hurting badly. I know that WP:SIZE is prose only but still the load time and the edit time is loooooonnnnnng. KrebMarkt 16:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Part of this discussion have been copied to talk:List of Aria chapters so we don't need to ga back and forth between the two articles. Please continue discussion concerning the List of Aria chapters there --KrebMarkt 21:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion about whether to split just the soundtracks or all the audio/CD info, except that we should not decide based on the class/rating of the result (or size issues) but whether it makes more logical and encyclopedic sense to do it that way. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:24, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Logic would say the whole audio, just that i'm not sure that we could do the split article right

Afterthought taking just the soundtracks is coherent content wise anime BMG & theme songs, taking the whole audio is coherent format wise they are all CDs. I'm not sure what the right choice. KrebMarkt 10:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Soundtrack splitting discussion

So -- is it time to discuss whether and how and how much to split off of the soundtrack information? Or is there more development to be done first? —Quasirandom (talk) 18:14, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

There is always more development to write, the issue is how to balance the whole stuff. We have more information than our capabilities to digest and regurgitate them in stylish manner ;)

About the Soundtracks CDs split :

1. How much should spin-out ?

   Soundtracks

   Drama CDs

   Radio CDS

   While the releases format are similar their contents are not the same at all.

2. Which spin-out article name ?

   List of Aria (manga) soundtracks

   List of Aria (manga) related soundtracks

   Aria (manga) discography

   Add any others possible names

3. Which projects scope & MoS

   Anime project is mandatory

   Album project offer no advantage only disadvantage in MoS side

   Discography project may be a better as there are already GA video game music articles within that project

For additional ideas my fishy try i think some elements will eventually find their way into the spin-out article. --KrebMarkt 20:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

So, returning to this. Do you want someone to edit your mudpit draft, or do you have another candidate draft in mind? (For what it's worth, I'm for splitting out the soundtracks only as List of Aria (manga) soundtracks, and don't care whose banners are on the talk page.) —Quasirandom (talk) 20:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

You have carte blanche as i'm short of time and still translating chunck after chunck of the French conference summary for the Torikaebaya Monogatari‎. I will extend and amend the spin-off list article on the fly. I feel that chunks of the development section should be migrated to the spin off article as more related to the music in Aria rather music at the service of Aria. With so many RS refs there is ZERO probability of Afd and it's insane density preclude revert merging. --KrebMarkt 22:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

If we spin off just the music, then yes, copying the music development info into it makes sense. I'll start poking at the mudpit draft. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Forget the drama & radio CD from the mudpit then as they a very disconnected from soundtracks. --KrebMarkt 22:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Roger that. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:40, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've edited the mudpit draft of the soundtrack split for language. I'm not entirely certain about the structure, and I left the commented out infoboxes there for the time being. Otherwise, I think we're ready to spin that out as at least a C-class list (or B if the structure's good) and let the general public edit-and-improve. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok for me as i'm done with the 8 pages academic translations for Torikaebaya Monogatari‎. Tag it C class for now. We are in unchartered waters as i much as i know there is no anime related soundtracks article that went that far in referencing and sourcing the albums and singles. We may have the future and dubious honor to set a precedent for other anime ost articles if we hit B class or FL for this spin-out article. --KrebMarkt 20:35, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Done. Main article is now at 38k of text, ignoring references, which I think is acceptable. I think we need to look for some peer reviews of the new list, though. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:58, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Which characters to include

I'm kinda wondering whether "main characters" should only include recurring characters. This would exclude Anna, Ayumi, Atora, and Anzu, each of whom appear in only one chapter/episode (except possibly also in passing in the conclusion). —Quasirandom (talk) 14:53, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

We should pull them back with the others characters sub-section and maybe Grand-ma should move too. Ayumi, Atora and Anzu re-appear in Monthly Undine 4-5-6 and are main protagonists in one of the photos drama as bonus of Aria of Origination DVDs bonus but that not enough to call them main characters. --KrebMarkt 16:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Grandma is a recurring character, though, and even gets a book cover. If the the traghetto girls do appear in some of the spinoff materials, that may be reason enough to keep them. Which leaves the question of Anna. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:05, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Anna only appears in one original episode :( --KrebMarkt 17:22, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

And in a photo in the final episode. But despite that, I'm inclined to remove Anna as not "main" enough. As for Ayumi, Atora and Anzu, they reappear in Origination ep.12, during Akari's exam, in a way that makes it clear we're to recognize them as acquaintances (Anzu also shows up in the background at Orange Planet a couple times the last five episodes, but those are more like easter-egg appearances.) With that, yeah, keep them. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Adaptation as an anime

I tried to clean up the discussion of the soundtrack in section 4.1 (Adaptation as an anime), including breaking it up with a direct quote from the citation (rather than just rephrasing it). The grammar of the quote itself is a little bit awkward. I wonder if anyone with decent Japanese might be able to suggest a cleaner translation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SpaceToast (talk • contribs) 15:21, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I think we have the official subtitled translation from the DVD extras. I don't yet have those to check myself, though. Kreb? —Quasirandom (talk) 17:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Copy-paste from Right Stuf bonus so if there is anyone to blame it's them. I may have missed to use [...] here and there but the quotes are 100% officials. I may give it another run later to have any citation MoS issue solved. The citation MoS is hellish (nudge Quasirandom to get Natural Box 1). My Natural box 2 is shipping right now but it takes time to reach France. --KrebMarkt 18:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

As I suspected -- so, yeah, awkward, but the official translations. I'll take a peek later and see if I can come up with a way to mitigate it somewhat. (If my current client pays on time, I'm ordering both parts of Natural next week as a gift to myself.) —Quasirandom (talk) 19:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Good Article?

Should this be nominated for Good Article status? It's seems very well written. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 21:53, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

We're working towards that. One specific hitch that's would prevent this from going GA is that we're currently using the ANN encyclopedia for cast references (which were put in place before the reliable source noticeboard finally determined that that's a no-no) and haven't found a good replacement citation for the minor roles. That and we haven't finished integrating Development and Reception sources that have come to light in the past three months (which have been many, with the release of the the anime second season in English). In short, it's not quite ready for a GAC. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:18, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I concur with Quasirandom. At least 4 minors roles need references for their seiyu. Reception and Development sections have more RS inputs than we can digest and integrate in the article and more is coming with the manga still on-going publication in the US and France and the upcoming release of the OVA & 3rd anime season in the US. --KrebMarkt 07:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Other not yet mentionned publisher

Korean: found it [2] [3] the refs are not perfect far from that but that will do. --KrebMarkt 20:31, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks like Random House Korea is finally starting to fill in some of the gaps in their online catalog -- it used to not be there. (I should go check a couple other series they publish, that I hadn't gotten references for.) —Quasirandom (talk) 21:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)