Talk:Arena (web browser)/GA1

GA Review

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Hi, I'm going to chip in and review this article for Good Article status. This is my first time reviewing an article, but I've undergone the process with several articles that I've written, so I know what it takes to write a Good Article. My gut feeling is that this will go smoothly: the material appears to be thorough, and it's well-supported with reliable references. A couple of the sections have some grammar issues, but it's mostly well-written. The small grammar issues, I may fix myself; but there's at least one instance where the issues are such as to make the meaning unclear. I'll give more specifics later, and then I'll put the article on hold to give you time to clear those up. Normally, the article is put on hold for a week, but I can't do that because I'm in the middle of moving. We'll work around that, but there don't at first glance appear to be many glaring issues.

Reviewer: Dementia13 (talk) 02:10, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Grammar Issues

• I've cleaned up some grammar in the various "Beta" sections. One thing you want to watch is to keep your tense consistent within a sentence: if you say that something "has" at the beginning of the sentence, you shouldn't say that it "had" later in the sentence. Don't mix those up, keep it consistent within the sentence. For example:

Beta-2 has two builds (beta-2a: 28 February 1996 and beta-2b: 21 March 1996) and introduced a new Application programming interface (API)).

I fixed this for you. It now reads like this:

Beta-2 had two builds (beta-2a: 28 February 1996 and beta-2b: 21 March 1996) and introduced a new Application programming interface (API)).

See the difference? It had and introduced, both past tense. Or make them both present tense, just don't randomly mix and match.

• The following sentence needs to be made clear: This API can be used for communication with other applications like the application browser-history. That could be taken two ways, each slightly different. Is it:

This API can be used for communication with other applications, in the same way that the application browser-history can,

or is it:

This API can be used for communication with other applications, such as browser-history

please clarify that.

• Where it says that Beta-3 introduced support for other operating systems, I'd like to see some of those operating systems specified.

• There's something wrong with the first sentence of "Yggdrasil phase", it looks like there's an extra "W3C".

• Although everybody would be able to compile Arena with the source code, volunteers created unofficial binaries. Consider that you're potentially writing this article for readers who don't know what that means, and reword that sentence.

• In the following sentence, "competitive" with what? If the idea was to try to bring Arena more into the browser mainstream, that probably deserves a little more detail.

• The Arena browser was shut down in favor of outside Linux-community development,[60] but it wasn't created any new build. Neither part of that sentence makes sense.

• It doesn't support any extended code,[66] made a mess of tables,[66] BG COLOR tag,[66] DIV ALIGN tag,[66] animated GIFs[66] and has problems with transparent GIFs. "...made a mess of tables" is the same problem of the different tenses within the same sentence, and the wording is a little too informal for what's supposed to be an encyclopedic article. If you can briefly state how it breaks each of those things, then you should do so; but definitely reword the "made a mess of" part.

• Most of the "Version numbering" section needs to be rewritten, it's strangely worded and difficult to understand.

• "Screenshots": what does "HTML form in" mean?

• under "History", should "html math" be "HTML math"?

I've made numerous minor grammatical fixes, but I'm leaving the rest up to you. I'm going to put this article on hold while you make the necessary changes. Since the issues involved are not large, and I'll be unavailable for most of next week, it'd be great if these could be cleaned up over the next three days. And, just so you don't think I'm picking on you, nice job with the article. Clearly, a lot of work went into it. The fixes I specified are small compared to the amount of effort you've put into it already. Dementia13 (talk) 03:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Fixing

• The following sentence needs to be made clear: This API can be used for communication with other applications like the application browser-history. That could be taken two ways, each slightly different. Is it:  Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

This API can be used for communication with other applications, in the same way that the application browser-history can,

or is it:

This API can be used for communication with other applications, such as browser-history

please clarify that.

• Where it says that Beta-3 introduced support for other operating systems, I'd like to see some of those operating systems specified. comment: see infobox: these is a detailed list of the supported oses mabdul 22:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Please specify it where you wrote it. The infobox lists what OSes are supported, presumably at the end of development; but that's not the same as saying what specific OS support was added with which specific release. Was support for all of those OSes added at the same time? Then say so without making me guess that the information's in an infobox. Dementia13 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

 Done; add the linux OS and the platform on that Arena runs now. mabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• There's something wrong with the first sentence of "Yggdrasil phase", it looks like there's an extra "W3C".

 Done? I corrected the headlines, hope that clarifies enough. or do you have better ideas? mabdul 00:38, 28 August 2010 (UTC); now it is done. a slightly rewording. mabdul 10:55, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

• Although everybody would be able to compile Arena with the source code, volunteers created unofficial binaries. Consider that you're potentially writing this article for readers who don't know what that means, and reword that sentence.

This probably isn't needed as its open source.Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Compiled (wikilink to compilier now) and binaries/binary are wikilinked --> the reader should read these articles? In the source code article it is also in some ways described. Need more clarification? I mean that has really nothing to do with Arena. This is computing (programming) standards/open source! mabdul 00:45, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's also an awkward sentence, and I'm hoping that by clarifying it, you will clean it up at the same time. But don't get lazy, thinking that anybody who would be looking at this article would already know what those things are. What if a fifth-grader is using this as research for a report? And if that same fifth-grader doesn't know how to compile source code, then the word "everybody" is inappropriate. A simple change like Although Arena could be compiled from the source code by any user, volunteers created binary versions which could be installed more conveniently is clearer and more accurate. It also takes away the informal, un-encyclopedic feel that the word "everybody" gives. Dementia13 (talk) 20:36, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Although everybody would be able to compile Arena with the published source code to be able to run the application, volunteers created already unofficial finish binaries hope that is enough clarification. mabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• In the following sentence, "competitive" with what? If the idea was to try to bring Arena more into the browser mainstream, that probably deserves a little more detail.  linked to browser wars Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

The link is good, but please find a way to briefly explain without making the reader follow a link. If you want this to be statused as a good article, then make it one, and make it self-contained instead of dependent on other articles for explanation. Dementia13 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I removed the link gain and explained it a bit. Or should I add the like anyway? mabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• The Arena browser was shut down in favor of outside Linux-community development,[60] but it wasn't created any new build. Neither part of that sentence makes sense.  Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Very good. Dementia13 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

• It doesn't support any extended code,[66] made a mess of tables,[66] BG COLOR tag,[66] DIV ALIGN tag,[66] animated GIFs[66] and has problems with transparent GIFs. "...made a mess of tables" is the same problem of the different tenses within the same sentence, and the wording is a little too informal for what's supposed to be an encyclopedic article. If you can briefly state how it breaks each of those things, then you should do so; but definitely reword the "made a mess of" part.

This section needs to be reworded.Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

see in the new section for comments mabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• Most of the "Version numbering" section needs to be rewritten, it's strangely worded and difficult to understand.

I'm not sure if this section is needed...Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I add this section to understand the timeline of releases. Will reword and make more work on the article in a few hours! (tomorrow morning!) mabdul 00:35, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

better? don't know if this wording is better understndable... mabdul 14:33, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It's better, and I do agree that it's a good section to include. Now that it makes sense, I can tweak its grammar, but you have to provide a reference for it. Dementia13 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I add a reference for the beta-3e to 0.3.05 version changed. Is this enough? I can't remember to read aything online about the version change. This is "normal" praxis. mabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• "Screenshots": what does "HTML form in" mean?  Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Good Dementia13 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

• under "History", should "html math" be "HTML math"?  Smallman12q (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Good Dementia13 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Progress

as I mention already above I will only mark it as finish mabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

---

OK, this is getting there. Here's what's left:

• When it says that support was added for other OSes, please state which OSes in the body of the article.

 Donemabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• Yes, the "volunteers created unofficial binaries" sentence does need reworded; see above.

 Donemabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• The sentence about making Arena competitive, please briefly discuss what that means without assuming that the reader knows what that means, or making the reader follow a link.

 Donemabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• The "criticism" section still needs work.

 Done hope my English is not too bad ;) Think the article is ready - or missed I something? If you have a question (i.e. to the animated gifs - I could add the reference out of the GIF article, but I can't check it [ blind copyandpaste ] otherwise please leave a talkback on my talkpage) mabdul 00:31, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

• The "version numbering" section needs a reference. Also, please verify that my grammar tweaks left the meaning intact. Dementia13 (talk) 20:58, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I add only a reference for the beta-3e to 0.3.05 change (with "quotation") --> is that enough? as mentioned above: can't remember to read something about this topic: this is normal praxis. mabdul 23:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh; I found a second reference by Y. - but that does notexplain the X.XX to betal-XY change! mabdul 00:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

OK

When I said that you should list the OSes for which support was added, I didn't mean that you shouldn't mention that if you couldn't name the OSes, I just meant that it was a detail that belonged in the article. Anyway, it looks good with your revisions; and after I've done some grammar corrections, I think it's ready to pass. BTW, as you mentioned, your English is OK, but when you're writing in a language other than your native language, you have to work a little harder to make sure that your spelling is correct and that you're using correct idiomatic phrases. Good work. Dementia13 (talk) 03:21, 30 August 2010 (UTC)