Talk:Antony Armstrong-Jones, 1st Earl of Snowdon/Archive 1

Archive 1

A sloppy article

This article seems to be largely based on, indeed copped from, a newspaper review of a book about Snowdon. Surely Wikipedia can do better than this kind of third-hand hearsay without getting into original research.

"The marriage ended in divorce in 1978, when Roddy Llewellyn briefly entered Princess Margaret's life and Snowdon played the outraged husband." Played the outraged husband! A classic example of the dehumanization of this branch of society and their lives merely as a drama rather than being actually lived. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.149.24.147 (talk) 06:06, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Agreed; to me it's quite one-dimensional and doesn't mention anything about his character apart from his apparently free-wheeling private life. He is a more interesting and complex (and to me, much more sympathetic) character than this article states IMO.

For example, it could say something about his abhorrence of hunting and, despite his near-aristocratic status, his dislike of snobbery; both of which apparently caused problems during his marriage to Princess Margaret.

Meltingpot (talk) 16:05, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed - not only is the article sloppy but to me it represents as well the whitewashing of the royal family's public personas. The wording is such that Princess Margaret's infidelity is glossed over (and not even mentioned at all) and it is implied that Llewellyn bears all blame for the sordid affair. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.199.181.224 (talk) 03:49, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Earl of Snowdon?

I was wondering, is the title of Earl of Snowdon a hereditary title or a life peerage. I was reading an article about Princess Margaret, and it stated that it is only a life peerage. Thanks for the help. Prsgoddess187 00:46, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

It's a hereditary title. However, he has been given a life peerage as well. This is discussed in his Wikipedia article. Chelseaboy 09:49, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Once again I should read the whole article before asking a question. Thanks again. Prsgoddess187 12:47, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

All Life Peers are created Baron or Baroness any other title is hereditary.94.196.139.201 (talk) 13:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I noticed while reading the article about Snowdon that he is identified as having been the picture editor of the Sunday Times Magazine. He never was. His "job" at the Sunday Times was "artistic adviser". He took photographs mainly for the magazine, sometimes for the paper.Did some interior design, the editors office, the editorial floor reception area, a screen made out of printing plates.

The Sunday Times Magazine had four picture editors in the time that I worked for them. Christopher Angeloglou, June Stanier, Bruce Bernard and Gunn Brinson.Ianynot 19:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Anthony or Antony?

The whole article contains numerous occurrences of the two spellings "Anthony" and "Antony". Which of these is the correct one? Bedetech (talk) 02:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Just in case anyone us still wondering about this, it is Antony (without an "h"). History Lunatic (talk) 05:22, 23 January 2014 (UTC)History Lunatic

Children

Channel 4 have stated on a recent documentary that one of his illigitemate chidlren was fathered during the early years of his marriage to Princess Margaret. Can anyone corroborate that? Indisciplined (talk) 22:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

All his children

Is there a reason the box on his page only lists his children with Princess Margaret? Should at least Lady Frances be in the little chart? I wonder if it was just copied and pasted from her article. Not being related to the royals means his second wife and daughter are much less 'notable', but there's no reason to exclude them that I can see. Andrei Iosifovich (talk) 00:58, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

The 'Arms' section

Why is it in French?? Zigwithbag (talk) 15:42, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

It is in "blazon", medieval Norman French, because that is the standard way of describing a coat of arms in England. Maproom (talk) 18:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Article title

The article appears to be titled "[one name], [another name]". This is laborious and not obviously necessary. Can't the title be simplified one way or another? (As he had some notability before marrying into Britain's longest-running soap opera, I'd plump for the former.) -- Hoary (talk) 03:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

It took over one year, but I see that somebody has made the move. Good! -- Hoary (talk) 13:42, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Moved page, but had not spotted your talk here, well, great minds and all that. --Artiquities (talk) 14:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I move the page back; please read WP:NCPEER and you'll see why. That convention certainly applies here, as he is definitely best known by his title. TysK (talk) 01:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Somebodies?

We read:

After his divorce from Princess Margaret, Lord Snowdon married Lucy Lindsay-Hogg, daughter of Donald Brook Davies and former wife of film director Michael Lindsay-Hogg, on 15 December 1978. Their only child, Lady Frances Armstrong-Jones, was born seven months later, on 17 July 1979. They divorced in 2000 upon the revelation that the 68-year-old Lord Snowdon had fathered a son out of wedlock, Jasper William Oliver Cable-Alexander (born 30 April 1998), with Melanie Cable-Alexander, an editor at Country Life magazine.

How many of these redlinks are for people who have any notability (other perhaps than for assiduous readers of the Daily Mail, etc)? If they're not notable, how about delinking them? -- Hoary (talk) 03:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Delinked. -- Hoary (talk) 13:59, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

TV Documentary.

It is strange that no mention is made of the television documentary made in 1971 by Armstrong-Jones. The subject was people of restricted growth and in particular Joyce Carpenter of Bromsgrove who died in 1973 and was the shortest ever adult recorded in the UK.94.196.139.201 (talk) 14:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.139.201 (talk) 14:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

WWD?

Does anyone know what WWD in the First marriage section stands for? The link leads to a disambiguation page and I don't know enough about the British media to make an informed guess as to what it means. 66.31.76.221 (talk) 20:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The reference provided is to an article by Samantha Conti, who is a contributor to Women's Wear Dailly, so I assume it's that. I've disambiguated the link. Rojomoke (talk) 22:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

That's correct according to the Bloxham article. Since I doubt that it's a reliable source for Snowdon's private life, I have removed the claim. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 06:14, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Polly Fry

It seems that the article is taking as true the claims made by Ms Fry that she took a DNA test with Snowdon which confirmed the parentage. The Daily Telegraph article makes it plain that Fry legal father denies that claim, and that Snowdon denied ever having taken the test. This needed to be made clear. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 17:16, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Sourcing issue

I'm concerned that much of the salacious material in this article is sourced to the biography by Anne de Courcy but the citation is to a review of this work. I would have thought we need better than that. The book itself may or may not be a reliable source but I don't think a book review is good enough. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 06:16, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Homosexuality

What evidence is there that Snowdon was homosexual - apart from his alleged sexual promiscuity, and the alleged belief of employees? Did he have any other psychiatric problems? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 23:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Is your homophoby your only psychiatric problem ? 90.61.82.50 (talk) 18:13, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Hereditary peer of the first generation

It seems as if he is the last hereditary peer of the first generation outside of the Royal Family. All the other first generation hereditaries who were made life peers in 1999 (the Barons Erroll of Kilmun, Low and Pakenham of Cowley) have died. Is this something worth mentioning in the article? Björn Knutson (talk) 23:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, he's not really "outside of the Royal Family", given his being the former brother-in-law of the Queen. I also think there were more than 3 "hereditaries who were made life peers in 1999", but if he's really the last one it would be notable IMO... --Roentgenium111 (talk) 14:20, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

What I think I meant with "outside of the Royal Family" was that he is styled neither as a Majesty nor as a Royal Highness which is sometimes used to define who is a member of the British Royal Family. The reason he was granted the earldom was so that his children with Princess Margaret would be titled so you could perhaps say that he was part of the extended Royal Family. There where other hereditary peers than the above mentioned who were created life peers in 1999 but those where former Leaders of the House of Lords ("No. 55676". The London Gazette. 23 November 1999.) and not hereditary peers of the first generation. Björn Knutson (talk) 15:24, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Lord Snowden ? and just "Snowden"

Is this the person who is known as "Lord Snowden", or who else is that? Lord Snowdon biography http://www.biography.com/people/lord-snowdon-20846059 : "Lord Snowdon was born as Antony Charles Robert Armstrong-Jones on March 7, 1930 in London. In 1960, he married Princess Margaret." The answer seems to be 'yes'

Besides, "Snowden" today utmost generally refers to Edward Snowden - a whistleblower. 109.58.249.241 (talk) 07:51, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

That's true, but only in the most recent six months. Any other time in the past half-century, a reference to "Snowdon" would almost certainly refer to this individual, in both his royal/celebrity and also his professional capacity ; he seems to be the only notable person with this name. And, Snowdon is not the same as Snowden, anyway.Tallewang (talk) 04:41, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Additional Citations Needed?

The article seems to be missing citations. Should a Template:Refimprove be added? Tewksbg (talk) 03:23, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

The article appears to be well cited with 52 sources cited, most of which appear to be reliable. If any facts are unsourced then tag them with {{citation needed}}. Verbcatcher (talk) 02:13, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Media Portrayal

Is it notable that he is played by Matthew Goode in Season 2 of The Crown? Jacobssteph (talk) 03:06, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

No. Jibal (talk) 05:47, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Jewish manicurist, etc

For a decade -- from this set of edits in 2008 until an edit of mine today -- readers were told that two writers claimed that Armstrong-Jones wrote to his missus "You look like a Jewish manicurist and I hate you". I don't know about one of these references; the other does not say this.

That second reference is a book review that quotes from the book it reviews. It's referred to quite a lot in this article. It's quoted from, too. A number of needed quotation marks were missing, and there were various distortions.

I'm somewhat interested in Armstrong-Jones's photography, that's all. Somebody a lot more interested than I am in his love life should check the veracity of what are presented as references. -- Hoary (talk) 13:51, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Grandkids, etc

I'm puzzled to see lists of (claimed) grandkids. I don't know how such material is encyclopedic. I do clearly see that it's mostly unsourced. -- Hoary (talk) 13:50, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Keivan.f, your removal of "citation needed" flags surprises me. Why is it OK for this stuff to remain unsourced? (Additionally, what's the encyclopedic significance of his grandkids?) -- Hoary (talk) 02:00, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

If you had checked my recent contributions, you would have realized that I have started adding sources. Keivan.f^Talk 02:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

So you did. I made some mistake; I'm not sure how. I'm sorry about that. (But there's still "Sybil von Hofmannsthal" to go.) I'm still wondering how the man's grandkids belong in his article. By contrast, Sigmund Freud was a hugely more significant figure in 20th-century history; but there's no section on "issue", and the (much longer) article contents itself with "The couple had six children: Mathilde (b. 1887), Jean-Martin (b. 1889), Oliver (b. 1891), Ernst (b. 1892), Sophie (b. 1893), and Anna (b. 1895)." -- Hoary (talk) 04:59, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

You're probably right. There have been far more important figures than him in the past century, but it's noteworthy that he and his royal wife were aristocrats, and this group of people are primarily known for their family connections, ancestry, descendants, etc. I would, somehow, justify adding his grandchildren's name based on that assumption. Keivan.f^Talk 17:25, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm not well versed in aristocracy but/so I was/am under the impression that his aristocracy only arrived with marriage and thereafter was dependent on this. If that was right, then the "issue", if worth listing, could go in the article on his first wife. However, a second daughter (via the second wife) is also described as "Lady". Do you, does anybody, know what this is for? ¶ Come to think of it, I also don't know why his four grandparents and eight great-grandparents are specified under "Ancestry". -- Hoary (talk) 05:02, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

He's an Earl. His legitimate daughters are Ladies. Celia Homeford (talk) 12:21, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Ah. Does her younger brother similarly become a lord? -- Hoary (talk) 23:58, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

No, the illegitimate children are not titled. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:11, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

They Might Be Giants song

there is a they might be giants song on their latest album about and named after him. add it to the in popular culture section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.211.30.93 (talk) 06:20, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

If you have a citation (link) to an independent reliable source that makes a convincing case that this is really noteworthy, it might be worth adding to the article. Otherwise, no. Softlavender (talk) 08:14, 14 November 2021 (UTC)